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197 OR Focus ST
- Thread starter tjhmortimer
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- 197
Golf 7R
M3?
Golf GTD Mk7
He is asking about two cars that are in totally different categories. Plus he is saying that he's going to be doing 350mile per week. Neither of these cars will get 350mile out of a tank. Surely they are open to other suggestions?
Here we go. V6 syndrome? People are allowed to offer opinions on a car they've not driven or owned so long as it's sensible and impartial. Am I wrong in asuming that the ST will be quieter and have more in-gear grunt on the motorway?
No I don't think I am TBH
you may be - especially if the Focus has a hole in the exhaust
It also depends on why the OP is looking at the two, his original thread stated that he was considering getting back into a 197 (he previously had one) but was worried about MPG, so was looking at other options..
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=385844
however, the MPG figs are very similar, Clio is 23 urban, 39.9 extra-urban and 31 combined, and the Focus ST is 20 urban, 41 extra-urban and 30.4 combined. Both have a 55 litre tank.
So the premium for a Focus may not be worth it if he is after a saving on fuel, as the difference would take too long to recoup.
..plus the 197 is a special car, almost as special as the V6.
There is no premium for the focus either, similar aged 197s are fetching similar money to STs.
Some of the comments are funny on here, its the first time I have heard a renault being called classy. There is nothing "special" about either in terms of being an exceptional performace car. Special to me is an M3, or an Exige etc.
Major things which have been positive for me with the focus:
- Cheap to maintain, first brake pads have been changed at 40k. Servicing is fixed at 135 for first 3 services.
- Well built, first problem at 40k. Fixed at first visit. Dealers are better.
- interior is far superior even on the ST2
- Driving position
- power and torque, slick gearbox.
- comfrotable
- cheap to tune
Overall it does everything well, good on a cruise, good to throw around on a blast and rewarding to drive, practical, half decent retentions and dealer service.
To put in to perspective, I had a meggy 225, a 182 and 2 172s. It is by far one of the best cars I have owned, it took me a couple of goes to be sure its what I wanted and with some help form B@llsie on here. I havent regretted it at all.
Some of the comments are funny on here, its the first time I have heard a renault being called classy. There is nothing "special" about either in terms of being an exceptional performace car. Special to me is an M3, or an Exige etc.
Major things which have been positive for me with the focus:
- Cheap to maintain, first brake pads have been changed at 40k. Servicing is fixed at 135 for first 3 services.
- Well built, first problem at 40k. Fixed at first visit. Dealers are better.
- interior is far superior even on the ST2
- Driving position
- power and torque, slick gearbox.
- comfrotable
- cheap to tune
Overall it does everything well, good on a cruise, good to throw around on a blast and rewarding to drive, practical, half decent retentions and dealer service.
To put in to perspective, I had a meggy 225, a 182 and 2 172s. It is by far one of the best cars I have owned, it took me a couple of goes to be sure its what I wanted and with some help form B@llsie on here. I havent regretted it at all.
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The premium comes with the hidden costs, total cost of ownership stuff, such as higher tax band (224 vs 199), higher insurance group (15 vs 17), although servicing on the Focus ST is cheaper.
For a full end of long term test review on the ST, its worth reading this.... i quote..
"To start with, as could be expected, the ride was made awful to the point that I’m surprised I have any fillings left. On top of this, the road noise was unbelievable and the handling tragic."
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evolongtermtests/209859/ford_focus_st.html
Maybe they are both crap and you need something totally different
For a full end of long term test review on the ST, its worth reading this.... i quote..
"To start with, as could be expected, the ride was made awful to the point that I’m surprised I have any fillings left. On top of this, the road noise was unbelievable and the handling tragic."
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evolongtermtests/209859/ford_focus_st.html
Maybe they are both crap and you need something totally different
TTRS & V50
Never driven a 197, but i've driven an st2 and st3 long distance and they are fantastic cars, so i'd say ST.
Could'nt diss-aagree more, but each to their own.
Check out the reviews on youtube.
Focus st vs Astra vxr is a good review, Tiff needal i think.
Could'nt diss-aagree more, but each to their own.
Check out the reviews on youtube.
Focus st vs Astra vxr is a good review, Tiff needal i think.
Mate you should do some proper reading!!! He is reffering to changing the 18s for 20s!!
The tax band is the same bracket and the insurance for me was identical. At least come up with some decent arguements......
St 4tw
No feedback is left on classified ads
lol, so you admit you where wrong:rasp:
6 disc changer and the leather (with heated and electec seats and 2 seat rear bench) is the only difference between a 2 and a 3.
CrippsCorner
ClioSport Club Member
Astra VXR
Focus RS!
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
Having read a lot of your posts, possibly the most biased poster on here, rivalling AR
. The quote (as Ad pointed out) was taken out of context, describing the ST on 20 inch wheels. The overall verdict was fairly positive towards the ST. The Evo long term verdict on the 197?
Despite being the most powerful car there it was decidedly the slowest. The horrid electric powered steering rightly came in for criticism too – the way it feels granny-light at low speeds crucifies your initial impression of this being a drivers’ car.
The Clio 197 is a good car, then, but not a great one. I’ll miss it for its usability, but I wanted to have more fun along the way. To be honest I was expecting better from Renaultsport
For the usage the OP has described, I'd suggest the ST would suit better, even if the 197 would be more fun on a B-road blast (if not by much)
The head units look the same now (older 55/06 reg might not)only difference is the st-3 has the 6 disk in dash version, the downside is the quality built in amp in the single slot version gets taken out to make room for the 6 disk holder, so you gain more slots but loose sound quality..
The leather in them isnt that good quality and always goes creased if you dont jump over the bolsters so over time it looks tatty, cloth is much better wearing.. same as my 182 - i like the interior but the cheap leather lets it down no end even though mine isnt creased(yet)
clio 182
ST all day long endless tunability and better build quality...
To be fair though your comparing two cars from different classes the focus ST is the same market as 225 meganes and golf GTIs
The Fact the 197 is so good is its own undoing when it comes to reviews it gets moved up a class all the time its not a family hatchback! its a shopping trolly its in the same league as fiestas and Corsas!
autocar magazine took a load of the best drivers car and tested them there were cars like the nissan GTR audi R8 and a lotus elise and loads more they thought enough of the 197 to pit against them lol and scored higher than a few more faster motors iirc
so really you shouldnt have a thread called 197 OR Focus ST it should Be 197 Or Fiesta ST lol
To be fair though your comparing two cars from different classes the focus ST is the same market as 225 meganes and golf GTIs
The Fact the 197 is so good is its own undoing when it comes to reviews it gets moved up a class all the time its not a family hatchback! its a shopping trolly its in the same league as fiestas and Corsas!
autocar magazine took a load of the best drivers car and tested them there were cars like the nissan GTR audi R8 and a lotus elise and loads more they thought enough of the 197 to pit against them lol and scored higher than a few more faster motors iirc
so really you shouldnt have a thread called 197 OR Focus ST it should Be 197 Or Fiesta ST lol
Renaultsport 200
Having read a lot of your posts, possibly the most biased poster on here, rivalling AR
The Evo long term verdict on the 197?
Despite being the most powerful car there it was decidedly the slowest. The horrid electric powered steering rightly came in for criticism too – the way it feels granny-light at low speeds crucifies your initial impression of this being a drivers’ car.
The Clio 197 is a good car, then, but not a great one. I’ll miss it for its usability, but I wanted to have more fun along the way. To be honest I was expecting better from Renaultsport
For the usage the OP has described, I'd suggest the ST would suit better, even if the 197 would be more fun on a B-road blast (if not by much)
Everything you say comes from Evo like they are all the Jesus' of motoring journalism.
On the flip side of the coin ill quote another mags writeup to cancel out some of the rubbish evo spirt out. (i really should get round to cancelling evo subscription)
AUTOCAR - They've chosen their best cars on sale. In not particular order: BMW 330d, 430 Scuderia, Focus TDCi, S-Max, Hyundai i10, XF, Lotus 2-Eleven, Cayman S, Scirocco GT and Clio 197 Cup.
On the Clio they said:
"It's the detailed feedback of steering, body and damper reaction, and the electric excitement that bursts through when you discover a car that truly gels as a driver’s machine (believe us, amongst hundreds of cars on sale, there aren't that many)”
“As a provider of automotive sensation, this car is right up there with the best in the world, regardless of price. For £14682, that makes it an extraordinary bargain”
There are also long term tests where the journo's had to be pulled from the car to give it back.
At the end of the day take what magazines say as a very rough guide. The only way you will find out is if you drive both cars possibly for a few days and see what does what better.
My own personal experience of the ST was that it was a good engine, it pulled nicely but (and again this is imo) a b road blast is far, far far better in a 197 than an ST not "just by much" like warren says. Oh and the ST I drove has had a replacement clutch (ford did pay), 2 replacement fog lights and to top it off it is RUSTING! lol. The owner is getting sick of it now and rightly so.
He is going to get a Megane R26 because that is also better in the corners and still has the grunt he wants.
Renaultsport 200
No truer word said.
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
Reading fail. It wasn't me that brought evo up, it was the fella that mentioned the article on the focus. Well done.
Renault Clio 172 Ph2
lol at complaining about the build of the ST then buying a meggy.
In 3months I had my meggy I had:
1. Replacement seat cover
2. Air con pipe
3. shock absorber
4. wheel centre
5. CD changer
6. Steering rack fault.
Some of which are the above I had to argue to get under warranty!
My ST is on 40k now (bought on 16) and it has had its first warranty claim this week, a tie rod, its modded, I have no stamps in the service book (mate works for Ford so I get it done on the side and he will stamp the book for me a some point. The dealer so much blink as to getting work done (and this was at another dealer close to work)
On the flip side I have no doubt whatsoever that round a track and twisty roads the R26 has the ultimate better pace.
No shocking traction issues with mine at all.
Renault Clio 172 Ph2
Until its wet, and you gun it in 2nd or third on a tight corner????
tbh, 1 potential advantage they have in regards to traction is having the 2.5 engine weight up front. Can only be a good thing i guess for those seeking power. But much over 300bhp has to be where a awkward handling must occur.
Engines ment to be great in them - id love to drive one. I do think they are great value for money. Lovely car
tbh, 1 potential advantage they have in regards to traction is having the 2.5 engine weight up front. Can only be a good thing i guess for those seeking power. But much over 300bhp has to be where a awkward handling must occur.
Engines ment to be great in them - id love to drive one. I do think they are great value for money. Lovely car
Until its wet, and you gun it in 2nd or third on a tight corner????
tbh, 1 potential advantage they have in regards to traction is having the 2.5 engine weight up front. Can only be a good thing i guess for those seeking power. But much over 300bhp has to be where a awkward handling must occur.
Engines ment to be great in them - id love to drive one. I do think they are great value for money. Lovely car
tbh, most quick cars are like that. My 1*2s were same. As a driver you learn what your can get away with. When i first had it I had the ESP kicking in all the time, but now I hardly ever have it.
My ST is far more drivable that my mates 300bhp RS. Mainly because the torque kicks in earlier and the pick up is far less agressive. The power delivery is quite smooth, not just a typical turbo. No doubt the engine is strongest weapon in the ST, its a peach, even if it is on heavy side for a modern engine.
Dont get me wrong I dont think its the best car in the world, but as medium size hot hatch, it ticks more boxes than anything else I tested.
Renault Clio 172 Ph2
Gavin.
ClioSport Club Member
urgh ford, 197 for me
