197 Rolling road surprising results

[Luke_m]

Well i went with a friend to pick his 106 Rallye up from A T Speed in Raleigh today. They weren't to busy so the question was asked could my car be put on the rollers.

Now i've always felt that my car has lacked torque and a bit of power but, decided it was just me. Until i drove another 1 last weekend that is which felt so different to drive alot more torque and the power delivery was so much better then mine.

I have a Piper cat back exhaust and a K&N Apollo induction kit on it at the moment.

Any way it went on the rollers and and the results came back as 119 bhp atw's, and 93 lbft atw's.

I know the induction kit is going to take some of the power away from the engine but not like that (it is going to be replaced with the OEM box now). But surely thats not gonna bring the figures up amazingly isit??

This just really doesn't seem right and i haven't a clue where to go from here really?? Has anyone got some advice?

 

[KMB]

Don't read too much into those figures unless the other car(s) on the day also made typical values.

If this is the case there could actually be something wrong, leakdown/compression test would be first on my list........

 

[Jamie]

How does the car run? Have you road raced any other cars?

 

[KMB]

Spark plugs OK, Running smoothly/normally? Oil consumption? Fuel grade?

 

[Luke_m]

unfortunatly there were no other cars running as it was just on the off chance they weren't busy.

i'll check my spark plugs tomorrow and compression test it, but its not long been serviced. Its never run amazingly smoothly and it shows on the graph. My fuel comsumption has always sat around 24-25mpg but i do a mixture of town and motorway miles so thought that was normal.

 

[Jamie]

I'd take it to somewhere else or race anther Clio Sport.

 

[172Ben]

Thats about 143bhp at the fly with a rough transmission loss of 15%.

Defo something not right for it to be running roughly 50bhp down, dont get to hung up, as said, check the usual things, and maybe go against another 197 or another RR.

 

[Jamie]

Yeah, if it was 50bhp down you'd REALLY notice that against another car.

 

[pje172]

Im the guy (Sonny, I'm on my Dad's account as he has a 172 Exclusive) who has the 106 Rallye Luke went to pick up. Btw it made 129.9bhp at the wheels. 8v power Baby lol

The Rolling road used is very good and the Guys @ Atspeed Racing are very knowledgeable and nigh on 30+ years and a family run business of enthusiasts and racers.

The difference between Lukes car and our friends is pretty drastic and this has been shown today with the results.

I looked at the AFR and I dont think it got any higher than 11:1 on wide open throttle (WOT). Where i always thought they should be roughly 13:1.

Transmission losses is more like 20% est.

The car should surely be making 140-145bhp ATW??? (i dont quite know exactly what the should make) (The clio 197 never mad the claimed 194-197bhp it was more like 175-181bhp, just like the 182/172 failed to hit claimed figures)
ATW power looks to be down 20-30bhp or more???

could a remap be the answer or have others experienced this problem before???

 

[sideways danny]

sounds like cam timing is well out to me

 

[Marv-C]

From the title, I was hoping that you were going to say your 197 actually made 197bhp . Sounds too much of a loss to put this down to the rollers. Hope you find out what, if anything, was wrong. Be interested to know.

 

[kenny172]

wouldnt worry about it mate i put mine on the rollers snd it was 201bhp and it got slated on here.

The funny thing is the comments on here are the complete opposite of my thread. i.e rollers giving acurate figures etc all day and was told not to belive the figures.

so i would go on the above cs logic, although seems that as long as the car is down on power in here the rr must be right

 

[Fred@BTM]

either the car is proper broke or the rollers are

a "good" 197 should be knocking on the door of 160@wheels

 

[franx]

sounds like cam timing is well out to me

this ?

Good luck ! under warranty still ?

 

[Brett]

Personally i'd meet up with another RS Clio and see how yours pulls against it. If your so much down on power it will pull on you like you've got your handbrake on.

 

[pje172]

Personally i'd meet up with another RS Clio and see how yours pulls against it. If your so much down on power it will pull on you like you've got your handbrake on.

Read the thread mate, says about our friend and about how different it feels.

 

[Bazzon]

wouldnt worry about it mate i put mine on the rollers snd it was 201bhp and it got slated on here.

The funny thing is the comments on here are the complete opposite of my thread. i.e rollers giving acurate figures etc all day and was told not to belive the figures.

so i would go on the above cs logic, although seems that as long as the car is down on power in here the rr must be right

Had the 200 rolling roaded at sitech racing in blair atholl today very pleased with the result tbh.

156.4 BHP at the wheel + the estimated 28% transmission loss = 201bhp

Torque 132.2 at the wheel + loss = 169

Thats why people questioned your figure. 28% Trans loss is not true.

However 156 ATW isnt to bad.

 

[Brett]

Read the thread mate, says about our friend and about how different it feels.

Sorry mate, didn't read it properly. Hope you get it sorted mate.

 

[pje172]

no worries mate. first thing we tried when our friend got another 197 was few people have go in both and see how different it felt and it feels very different. i just dont understand why. the car is Rich on WOT, but dunno if thats just standard settings, or does this explain the poor fuel consumption luke gets too.

 

[172Ben]

FLOL still at the 28% transmission loss!!!

 

[john lloyd]

have you had it since new? has it been in for any warranty work at all?

sounds like cam timing could be out.

i would get it rr at another place forst for piece of mind and if those figures are still low i would have it checked out by a specialist mate.

 

[pje172]

think we need to forget about the rolling road a little bit. i know these are good rollers.

and concentrate more on the fact that several times its been said me and luke have compared it to another friends 197 and theres a large difference.

 

[JayR]

Bad rollers!

In seriousness, if it was that bad i wouldnt be talking about it on cliosport, i would be getting it down to Renault ASAP before warrenty expires!

 

[pje172]

oh i think luke is, but were just looking for peoples experiences. see if they have had or seen this problem before.

 

[EngineerD]

FLOL still at the 28% transmission loss!!!

Rolling road gave me 50% transmission losses once lol

 

[john lloyd]

it was saying another rr would give him great evidence to give to renault has it had any warranty work or oil leaks fixed that could explain timing out?

 

[Weeman]

Spark plugs OK, Running smoothly/normally? Oil consumption? Fuel grade?

Fuel grade, It must of been running on diesel or semi skimmed milk.

And unless they have started Turbo charging the 197 then 95, 98 or 102 ron or Avgas won't make any great difference.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Any way it went on the rollers and and the results came back as 119 bhp atw's, and 93 lbft atw's.

FLOL.

Its F*cked.

Take it back to Renault.

You are sure its not a 1.2?

 

[Christophe]

It's likely to be be the cam timing.

 

[pje172]

thought it was hard to c**k the cam timing up on F4R lumps due to cam and crank locking?

 

[franx]

this would have only been possible at manufacturing ... monday morning incident ? Def go back to the dealer when warranty is still there. Your car is sick.
This can be said because you had other cars to compare with , same day, same RR, right powers/wrong powers

 

[theduck]

Almost got to be cam timing.

 

[pje172]

right welll what we need to know is there anybody out there who is willing to send us a copy of a dyno print out so we can compare please????

 

[SteveS Cup]

I'm not a great knowledgable mechanic but could it be exhaust sensors??? I had these go on my TT and it drank fuel and wasn't running as quick as normal. Changed them and it was like a different car! I think there's more chance of it being something like a silly electronical sensor rather than mechanical.

 

[Ribena]

if it helps, mine made 184.3bhp and 157ft-lbs with about 2000 miles on the clocks.


edit: looking for graph...

 

[withoutabix]

heres mine

R27 - No engine mods
20,000m

 

[pje172]

thank you mate. anymore people with graphs just stick them up. it all helps.

 

[fUbAr]

mine was 15bhp down compared to other 182s when I bought it and we had a rolling road day. Turns out it was owned by a woman before me who never saw the naughty side of 4000 revs. I got the ECU reset and went on a mission to treat the car 'properly'. 2k later, it was making book power on the same rollers with no modifications

 

[withoutabix]

some more here aswell if you can view them

http://www.clio197.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2030&page=2

 

[Luke_m]

Cheers for the graphs guys, i'll scan mine and post it on here. In comparison mine looks absolutly terrible.
Its also dropping off earlier then those graphs.
What is the likely hood of Renault telling me its not their problem?