200 supercharger, turbo and re map and ecu

[lbrench]

Can't afford brakes, got 9k a year insurance premium after the SC.

U need to read the thread, as I stated earlier my insurance is modified car insurance so I pay an extra 50 quid for every 25bhp I go over 210bhp so shouldn't be too bad

 

[DMS]

Come on Darren don't be like that, not everyone can just stroll into Ktec put 10K on the table and tell them "one of your low comp turbo conversions please, and throw in an omex for good measure"

Is that supposed to be a dig?
More like 6k actually. Plus I'm no mechanic, so there'd have been no point me even attempting it myself. I go to work, earn my beans and spend them on what I like. I just fancied a turbo'd Clio.
These threads are a daily occurrence now and they seem to be full of the same people throwing the same opinions around. There are only a few people on here with some form of forced induction on their Clio's, and I know who they are. I'm fed up of hearing bitter comments from people who don't own one and therefore don't have a valid opinion on the subject of ownership.
People are entitled to their opinions of whether it's a waste of money or not but people who don't actually own one commenting on what they're like to run, drive daily and keep maintained are talking out of their arses.

 

[Magic Johnson]

@ lbrench: Pmsl, so do you! You just posted that!

 

[lbrench]

I am willing to bet good money that you are insured TPFT.

I'm fully comp, says on my certificate

 

[Naith]

I'm fully comp, says on my certificate

your certificate or the person who owns the policy?

 

[gaz44]

Really ?

Wow.

I laughed at "only £1995" for insurance too. Still, if you've got the cash...

Good luck with the conversion. I reckon that insurance will be required shortly, and all to beat a Vectra in a straight line!

 

[T.Trophy]

Is that supposed to be a dig?

Not at all mate just a little bit of jest between two clio turbo owners.

On a different note, you looking forward to getting the car mapped at full boost at the beginning of Feb?

 

[DMS]

Not at all mate just a little bit of jest between two clio turbo owners.

On a different note, you looking forward to getting the car mapped at full boost at the beginning of Feb?

Oh yes!
Was discussing it with the K-Tec crew at Autosport on Saturday actually.
Andy can't map my car properly while it's got the standard cat on there because it'll burn it out, so I've been talked into getting a decat. A plus side is that it should free up a couple of extra ponies and will probably sound better. The standard cat will go back on at MOT time.
They've recommended a GReddy boost controller which they've fitted to a couple of their turbo'd motors before which seems to work well with the Omex. It'll come in at around £250. There are other more costly options too but as long as the boost can be set "per gear" that's all I'll really need (1.2bar+ in 1st and 2nd will only be good for shredding tyres and gearboxes).
There will also be about 4 hours labour because it'll have to be wired into the loom and hooked up to the ECU, then of course the decat will need fitting as well, then the mapping (shouldn't need much). I think Andy said he'd do me a before and after run on the dyno as well to show the power and torque increase.
I can see the drive home being fun. I'll probably use at least one full tank doing the 191 miles back home

 

[lbrench]

your certificate or the person who owns the policy?

Mine, its my own policy

 

[Naith]

Mine, its my own policy

with an M postcode?! details...? i need some of that

 

[T.Trophy]

I can see the drive home being fun. I'll probably use at least one full tank doing the 191 miles back home

Easy!

So are they looking to actually connect the boost controller to the omex? and are they confident you won't suffer the same boost drop as me, butch and ryank?

 

[DMS]

Yes. The boost controller is going to be hooked up to the Omex so that it can be changed while driving. The boost controller is going to be controlling the boost and the ECU will adjust the fueling and ignition accordingly. The plan is to have a couple of "presets" so that it runs less boost in first and second then full boost in the other 3 gears, or can be turned down for fuel economy on long journeys or when racing Corsa's .
I don't know about the boost dropping off, but even if it does that doesn't mean the car can't make more power further up the rev band. As I understand it, boost is a measure of how much air is being forced into the engine above normal atmospheric pressure. The boost dropping off could just mean that the engine is being more efficient (or something like that). I could be wrong though so someone who's better positioned to comment should probably answer.

 

[sideways danny]

Easy!

So are they looking to actually connect the boost controller to the omex? and are they confident you won't suffer the same boost drop as me, butch and ryank?

Dont look at the boost curve quite so much, look at the power. Boost can drop off and power hold on right to the end, and vise versa

 

[T.Trophy]

Yeah I've heard all that about engine efficiency but thats not the case with these unfortunatley.

I'm surprised the greddy and omex are compatible as I would of expected a similar set up to mine. With the boost controller seperate and controlling the boost (obviously) and the ECU just reading from the map sensor (which you seem to have a 3 bar fitted not sure what mine is but its found on turbo espaces? so the chances of it reading an additional 1.5 bar on top of atmospheric is highly unlikely).

Obviously you'll have control of the boost (via the boost controller) but you'll still be in the same boat as me as in manually selecting boost levels. Which is quite interesting when your having a little traffic light GP and your swapping boost levels as well as changing gear LOL

 

[T.Trophy]

Dont look at the boost curve quite so much, look at the power. Boost can drop off and power hold on right to the end, and vise versa

When the boost drops off the power seems to pack its bags and go with it, to the point where you may as well just swap cogs at 6.5K.

 

[W17GLE]

Evo's are not even that expensive to run. Rexe got a cambelt and balancer belt, oilchange, plugs and ayc fluid change for £250. ayc only needs doing every 9000 miles and a mini service is only about £90. You are are going to have to do far more oil changes than standard on a turbo/supercharged clio so it does make the evo seem the better option.

lol i forgot to quote.... i fail.

 

[DMS]

When the boost drops off the power seems to pack its bags and go with it, to the point where you may as well just swap cogs at 6.5K.

Here's my current RR graph. The boost does drop off a little bit and it does make peak power at about 6.5k rpm. It still pulls well after that though.
Bear in mind that at the moment it's running a similar boost level to the LPT conversions, except because the engine is low comp it's making slightly less power.

Sorry about the huge, poor quality picture. My scanner died.

 

[T.Trophy]

Evo's are not even that expensive to run. Rexe got a cambelt and balancer belt, oilchange, plugs and ayc fluid change for £250. ayc only needs doing every 9000 miles and a mini service is only about £90. You are are going to have to do far more oil changes than standard on a turbo/supercharged clio so it does make the evo seem the better option.

lol i forgot to quote.... i fail.

As has been established in every other thread of this type it's down to what the owner wants.

In my case I had an immaculate 30k Trophy that I'd owned from new. not a single mark on it. I figured for what I'd get for the car and the cost of the turbo conversion that an equally priced evo or what ever would have ragged half to death as such I decided to keep the car that I knew the full history of and had the conversion carried out which I still have no regrets about.

 

[sideways danny]

Yes. The boost controller is going to be hooked up to the Omex so that it can be changed while driving. The boost controller is going to be controlling the boost and the ECU will adjust the fueling and ignition accordingly. The plan is to have a couple of "presets" so that it runs less boost in first and second then full boost in the other 3 gears, or can be turned down for fuel economy on long journeys or when racing Corsa's .
I don't know about the boost dropping off, but even if it does that doesn't mean the car can't make more power further up the rev band. As I understand it, boost is a measure of how much air is being forced into the engine above normal atmospheric pressure. The boost dropping off could just mean that the engine is being more efficient (or something like that). I could be wrong though so someone who's better positioned to comment should probably answer.

I think you've mis heard some of the details there, the Greddy Profec B wont connect to the omex, it controls boot independantly. Clever piece of kit and the only boost controller i'd ever recommend

 

[DMS]

I think you've mis heard some of the details there, the Greddy Profec B wont connect to the omex, it controls boot independantly. Clever piece of kit and the only boost controller i'd ever recommend

I may well have TBH. It was a three way conversation at the time, and I'm not down with this techie stuff. That's just the way I interpreted it.
We'll see what comes of it, but either way I just want POWAAAAAH... and NOISSSSSSE...

 

[T.Trophy]

Obviously we'll just have to wait and see at the begining of Feb.

But I'm confident that it will be the same as mine. Obviously theres talk of adjusting the VVT as in the dephased state there's little to no valve overlap but this is something Paul experimented with the last time on the rollers and the boost still dropped off.

 

[T.Trophy]

I think you've mis heard some of the details there, the Greddy Profec B wont connect to the omex, it controls boot independantly. Clever piece of kit and the only boost controller i'd ever recommend

My Gizzmo's been spot on in all fairness, does exactly what it says on the tin and reasonabley simple to set up.

 

[W17GLE]

As has been established in every other thread of this type it's down to what the owner wants.

In my case I had an immaculate 30k Trophy that I'd owned from new. not a single mark on it. I figured for what I'd get for the car and the cost of the turbo conversion that an equally priced evo or what ever would have ragged half to death as such I decided to keep the car that I knew the full history of and had the conversion carried out which I still have no regrets about.

I'm still in two minds as to do the ph1, i was just saying that the evo's aren't that expensive to run as people are under the impression they are silly expensive but they are not all that bad.

I'm doing suspension, brakes and lsd before charging it though.

 

[sideways danny]

When the boost drops off the power seems to pack its bags and go with it, to the point where you may as well just swap cogs at 6.5K.

shouldn't get too much power drop off, you'll get some unless you're running a BIG turbo,

making 280 at peak and still about 270 at limiter

 

[T.Trophy]

I'm still in two minds as to do the ph1, i was just saying that the evo's aren't that expensive to run as people are under the impression they are silly expensive but they are not all that bad.

I'm doing suspension, brakes and lsd before charging it though.

At least try one, you'd be blown away at how tractable they really are, I had the misfortune of driving an Ignis sport a few years ago and it would wheelspin everywhere just becausre the chassis was so poor and that was with 115bhp.

They really are impressive

 

[T.Trophy]

Danny my boost drop off is alot worse than that, what would you deem a reasonable size turbo for 300bhp? comp and turbine wheels and AR's etc..

 

[sideways danny]

that graph's not showing boost drop off, just power, torque and AFR/Lambda. I do have a data log from the ECU though......hang on

 

[sideways danny]

top is RPM, middle it Boost (controlled by Profec B)

 

[T.Trophy]

Sorry mate thats what I meant the power drops off dramatically at 6500.

I have'nt got any graphs scanned into the computer otherwise I could of uploading them to show you.

 

[T.Trophy]

top is RPM, middle it Boost (controlled by Profec B)

I can't quite see the scale or the boost figures but admittedly it looks a lot smoother than mine (which peaks at 22psi before plunging back to 12psi) interesting photbucket title, who's hpt was it? and whats it putting out?

 

[sideways danny]

that turbo will NEVER hold 22psi, turn it down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no wonder you're getting drop off and power loss 18psi stable is what you should be aiming for, you're pumping in hoter air, not more of it

 

[T.Trophy]

Obviously with the luxury of a boost controller I've tried it at all settings and regardless of what it peaks to, it drops off to 12psi.

 

[DMS]

18psi is still 1.2 bar though ain't it? Which is what mine should be able to hit.

 

[sideways danny]

the boost scale on that log is as 214kpa top line, 165kpa 2nd line, so peak boost is 15/16psi and making 282bhp

 

[T.Trophy]

Just out of curiosity if you were building a kit for your self what turbo would you fit? Hypothetically?

 

[T.Trophy]

the boost scale on that log is as 214kpa top line, 165kpa 2nd line, so peak boost is 15psi and making 282bhp

And is that on a clio?

 

[2 live]

Yeh I cud of got something faster but they all handle badly an. I had to think of insurance etc, and I can't really think of any hot hatch that is faster than the 200 in the same price bracket

i wouldnt bother with nos tbh. my personal opinion. i wouldnt want to spend £££s on something that only gives gains some of the time, and then needs more spending after every 5 mins of running. bottle refills etc. nos is last ditch effort to extract every last possible 0.1 bhp out of the car.


i think you would be better off getting some tuition tho tbh. dont take offence but braking on the corner on the slip road of the m62 was a big no-no....i almost ran into the back of you and it unsettled the car mucho.


but at the end of the day, its your money, your car, your choice.


go for it.

just dont go taking it anywhere that will only do 1/2 a job

 

[DMS]

Surely you can't go much bigger in the Clio? There's very little clearance between the turbo and the heatshield as it is. Unless the angle the turbo sits at could be changed somehow?

 

[sideways danny]

18psi is still 1.2 bar though ain't it? Which is what mine should be able to hit.

yes

 

[sideways danny]

And is that on a clio?

a 182, one of the first k-tec did for a customer I think