2006 Renault sport clio

[Mitchy]

Why is the CTR in a different class tom??

A clio 182 costs £14500. A CTR costs £16000. This new clio is quoted at approx £15500.

Can you tell me again why the CTR is in a different class??

In 2 years time the way the hot hatch market is going 200bhp is only going to be average! Its only 20bhp up on what youve got now but in a heavier shell.

 

[Toypop]

Well you could argue that the CTR is closer to the Megane than the Clio?

As for pricing, if you increase the spec of the CTR to that of the 182....

 

[Mitchy]

Spec?

You mean airconditioning!

£16000 is with A-C. Ive actually spotted 1 for £15395 in black with AC unregistered.

 

[Toypop]

Come on! It doesnt even have fog lights! Its stripped bare!

 

[jon_r]

Superminis
Clio
Corsa
Fiesta
Micra
Polo



Small Family Cars
Civic
Focus
Megane
Astra
Has nothing to do with price, the CTR is simply in the class above.

 

[Mitchy]

I would say the CTR is better built and equipped than a 182. Interior is so so much nicer, has a 6sp box, racing styled seats, excellent driving position, bigger brakes, better performance etc etc etc

Jon, you wouldnt say that when i mention performance so why say it now

 

[Toypop]

Seats are better in the CTR without a doubt. Gear box and driving position as well.

It was slower round the Top Gear track though?

 

[Tom]

Quote: Originally posted by Mitchy on 03 October 2004


Why is the CTR in a different class tom??

A clio 182 costs £14500. A CTR costs £16000. This new clio is quoted at approx £15500.

Can you tell me again why the CTR is in a different class??

In 2 years time the way the hot hatch market is going 200bhp is only going to be average! Its only 20bhp up on what youve got now but in a heavier shell.





Civic is in the hatch sector along with the focus, due to its size/price.

The clio is on average 15bhp more powerful than its rivals in its own class, thats why its often mistaken as a competor with models in the class above.

The CTR is siqnificantly more expensive than the clio in terms of its list price and spec options.

We are about to reach a "power celing" within the supermini sector because of this. Nobody will launch a car producing more than 200bhp for several years. The statement that 200bhp is average is confusing me what exactly are you basing that on?

 

[jon_r]

Mitchy agree that the Clio is in the same class performance wise as the Civic, but in size/model wise they are in different "classes" for the reasons stated above.

 

[Tom]

Quote: Originally posted by Mitchy on 03 October 2004

Jon, you wouldnt say that when i mention performance so why say it now

Because that not how car classes work.

An evo 8 isnt in the same class as a F360 but the performance is similar.

Think about it.

 

[Mitchy]

Okay, when someone mentions hot hatch these cars spring to mind

FRS/147GTA/R32/S3-A3/LCR/CTR/Clio V6/182/172-Cup

Okay these cars may be priced above that of a clio, but we are not talkin about price here, we are talking about HOT HATCHES!!!!

Okay the clio is best in class ie supermini. Theres no arguments there. Im not on about individual groups, im on about hot hatches as a whole.

Every car mentioned has 200bhp or above in the year of 2004. All these cars will no doubt progress as will the clio. In 2006 the clio will put on weight and only be 200bhp. The other cars will have moved on and in the hot hatch league the clio will remain down the bottom end of the scale.

An Evo 8 is a family saloon, a ferrari is a supercar costing 4+ times as much. The CTR/182 are very similar cars, a ferrari and an evo are not!!

 

[Tom]

Now your getting it!

Well done.

 

[Dash]

When I think of a HOT HATCH. I can only think of Clio 182 as they are indeed HOT HATCHES.

I think family sized sporty hatch as FRS/147GTA/R32/S3-A3/LCR/CTR

 

[Mitchy]

Thatll be why you drive a clio then james

 

[Tom]

Sorry mate, but you seem to have no concept of how the car markets work.

Im simply trying to help you understand, then maybe you can join the discussion with a relevant point.

Renault clearly know how to make a great hothatch you cant honestly tell me they have read the market wrong this time?

Like i said have a think.

 

[Dash]

I dont, but if I was thinking of buying a HOT HATCH then the Clio would be first on my mind. IF I wanted to buy a sportyish family hatch, I would be looking in the CTR sector.

 

[Jeremy Townsend]

Comparing like for like prices, the 182 is £14700, the CTR is £16250 + a/c

 

[Mitchy]

Quote: Originally posted by Tomclio182 on 03 October 2004


Renault clearly know how to make a great hothatch you cant honestly tell me they have read the market wrong this time?

Like i said have a think.





Your agreeing its a hot hatch then?? Or is it a supermini?? You cant have it both ways matey!! Hot hatches and it aint up there pal. Hot hatches are FRS/Alfa 147/R32.... agreed a league above a clio.

Renault are cack at making performance hot hatches, good at making superminis though! Or which 1 is it tom?? Supermini or hot hatch?? £27000 for a clio V6 for instance! I can run faster!!

 

[Tom]

Jesus!

Its both, but its grouped buy markets and aimed at specific sectors.

Thats what we are talking about thats why 200bhp is ample.

 

[Brazo]

EVO class the clio as a hot hatch and for arguments sake the VTS as a supermini

However they also class the mini cooper s as a hothatch an dthe mini cooper as a supermini.

I do agree with Mitchy though as in effect it will be 182 performance in 18 months when all the other hot hatches will have moved on!

 

[Mitchy]

Okay matey your the marketing boffin. Lets not argue with you because you have 4 stars!

200bhp is ample in supermini category.....agreed??

200bhp in hot hatch category is cack.......agreed?? (Or it will be in 2-3 yrs time)

I would say the clio is aimed at the hot hatch market and not the market of supermini. Who buys a 182 because its a supermini?? Who buys a 182 because its a hot hatch??

 

[Dan##]

there are different classes based on size etc as explained above!!!!

the new audi rs6? is fookin quick, but its an estate! you dont start comaring it to subarus etc!

 

[Tom]

To what?

What will rival it?

There is nothing due out that could touch the 182 even if they left it as it is.

Never mind a better new version.

 

[Mitchy]

Dan...Estate vs saloon

Clio vs CTR = hatch vs hatch

 

[Dash]

Someone seems to be going round in circles here.

I would buy a 182 because it is a hot hatch. I would buy a CTR because its a family sized sport hatch.

Its very easy you know.

 

[Mitchy]

Nothing will match it in supermini group.

Plenty to overpower it in hothatch though especially 2-3 yrs down the line.

 

[Dan##]

Quote: Originally posted by Mitchy on 03 October 2004
Dan...Estate vs saloonClio vs CTR = hatch vs hatch

NO!! small hatch, bigger hatch!

 

[Toypop]

Renaults aim is to flog as many Clios as possible.

Unfortunately that doesnt automatically mean that they need to build something that impresses the track day crowd. Look at the sporty C2, it wont set the tarmac on fire but it is very popular amongst the chavs.


I would imagine that more Renaultsport owners have attended cruises than track days. More Renaultsport owners have fitted pointless body kits than have fitted track tyres.

To impress the majority of buyers they need something that has a high specification, low price, reasonable insurance and most important - good styling. As far as performance goes its only really the 0-60 that matters to the max power crowd. I would guess that widening the power band is more important than having well over 200bhp.

 

[jimmy_mac]

f**kin hell, have a word!

 

[Mitchy]

A CTR is a hot hatch BTW, not a family sized sports hatch!

Thats what a golf gti is or 1.8 zetec focus.

No point in arguin, all ill say is what the majority of other cliosport members have expressed.

Dissapointment if thats whats on the line in 2-3 yrs time. A 20bhp increase with a 100kg increase in weight.

Hardly exciting is it?

 

[Dash]

Quote: Originally posted by Mitchy on 03 October 2004
A CTR is a hot hatch BTW, not a family sized sports hatch!Thats what a golf gti is or 1.8 zetec focus.


I beg to differ.

 

[Tom]

Quote: Originally posted by Toypop on 03 October 2004


Renaults aim is to flog as many Clios as possible.

Unfortunately that doesnt automatically mean that they need to build something that impresses the track day crowd. Look at the sporty C2, it wont set the tarmac on fire but it is very popular amongst the chavs.


I would imagine that more Renaultsport owners have attended cruises than track days. More Renaultsport owners have fitted pointless body kits than have fitted track tyres.

To impress the majority of buyers they need something that has a high specification, low price, reasonable insurance and most important - good styling. As far as performance goes its only really the 0-60 that matters to the max power crowd. I would guess that widening the power band is more important than having well over 200bhp.





Thank the lord! are you reading this mitchy?

 

[Brazo]

There are faster hot hatches in a straight line than 182 but none really come close in terms of handling

For example the 147GTA is a missile but wouldnt see which way a 182 went om a twisty road.

GOLF R32, just as fast but at almost 1500kg, not exactly nimble

Leon 225R again maybe atad faster, may be not the 210 is slower, but hardly up to the 182 handling spec.

FRS is reported to be a joke on all but the smoothest of tracks

CTR probbaly comes the closest but being that much bigger again not as nimble

 

[Dash]

CTR - Family sized sporty hatch

Fabia VRS - Family sized sporty hatch

etc

 

[Tom]

But none of the above are clio rivals!

Its the class above, the clio just happens to have similar performance as its at the top of its game/class

 

[Mitchy]

20bhp increase with a 100kg increase in weight.

Cars are supposed to get faster, not remain the same!!

Goodnight vienna!!!!

 

[Dan##]

Quote: Originally posted by Tomclio182 on 03 October 2004
But none of the above are clio rivals!Its the class above, the clio just happens to have similar performance as its at the top of its game/class

its pointless tom, not worth the effort! lol

 

[Dash]

Quote: Originally posted by Tomclio182 on 03 October 2004
But none of the above are clio rivals!Its the class above, the clio just happens to have similar performance as its at the top of its game/class


Thank goodness someone knows what they are talking about.

 

[Brazo]

Right lets ignore class sizes LOL!

In terms of outright pace it would appear that the new rs clio will be no faster in a straight line than the 182 18 months down the line!

 

[cliopower]

This new clio is supposed to be based on the Micra chasis and is to be as wide as the Modus but not as tall and shares a trimed down version of the megane rear end according to Reno officials but all these pics you see in Auto express etc are just prototypes that were made last year so you may be supprised as to what actually goes into production. Of-course this is going to be a keyless car and I have been promised that there will be no rattling sunroofs this time....we shall see.