205GTi handles better then a Clio Trophy?

[MarkM]

A report about the Clio Trophy. Just a journo's opinion I know but interesting comparison.

Quote from telegraph motoring website.
"But the finest handling? That's a big claim. It's certainly safe and the temptation is to enter corners too fast, wind on a lot of lock and apply too much power. The ABS and especially the EBD systems keep the braking totally stable even when used hard while entering a corner. You can abuse it and get away with it. It's quicker, however, to exercise a bit of self-control and avoid twirling the wheel too much once in the corners. When switching left/right through tight S-bends, it is possible to hang the back out a little but it tends to resist swinging its tail around.

In short, it's not like the little Peugeot 205 GTi of old, which was happy to go sideways when the throttle was lifted and thus provided endless controllable entertainment. Renault's 182 Trophy is a quicker car, a much more modern car and perhaps it can argue its corner to claim the finest handling but, no, I can't concede that it is the most fun hot hatch. It's a bit more grown up than that and drivers who appreciate a very fine, high-performance front-wheel-drive chassis, powered by a magnificent twin-cam engine, will revel in it."

 

[rory182]

well the 1.6gti defo handles better than my 182, never driven a trophy so can comment. But the 205gti handles like anything on £30 OEM shockies wheras the Trophy is on £3k shockies! lol

 

[Phill1978]

prolly true, the more modern cars get the less involving they are, wouldnt want to be in a 205gti in a crash though when those corner antics went wrong, that said i wouldnt want anything less involving than the cup so a hatcback i.e LCR, CTR are out of the question.

at a push id take a 106gti if money was tight and i enjoyed driving

 

[Phill1978]

... btw saw a 205gti the other day with a really wide track and lowered heavily with fat tyres it looked a bit like the old cooper s in stance but wider ! cornered literaly like a go kart

 

[Paul J]

No doubt about it, i bought the 182 (not Trophy tho) hoping it was the modern 205 but it is no-where near as much fun or has the adjustability that a 205 has on the limit.

imo the focus has a better chassis aswell.

 

[rory182]

the 1.6just doesnt let go, I really dunno how anyone could crash one - so much fun. Yet without the crazy speeds the RS's etc are capable of, I find myself going into bends on B-Roads about 10mph faster in the 182 than in my 1.6 gti, all good fun

 

[rory182]

Paul you get used to it and it is as much fun, maybe not quite as predictable but still...

 

[Pat_986]

Mate has got the 205 1.9GTI
i must say it has awsome handling, but when you reach the limmit it is hard to get back.

But what would you rarther have, a 15 year old car or a nice new, better looking faster
182?

 

[MarkM]

I had a 205GTi and agree felt like it handled better then my cupped 182 sharper and less roll. I did however get a bit of lift off oversteer once tackling a round about at about 60mph. I had to drive straight back home for a change of underwear :clown:

 

[Paul J]

Rory, ive driven several 205s inc a challenge car on a small course, i also took the 182 to the airstrip last weekend (+10k fast road miles) and trust me the 182 will never match the fun of the 205 for me.

The Clio is the car i own for a reason tho, its a much better car in every other way

 

[TheJesus]

Trophy looks to corner very stable and flat, but what this journo realises that most seem to overlook is the adjustibility mid corner... this is why Reno haven't really improved their hot hatches imo... more power, more weight tho... better suspension and damper setups, seeminly less adjustment tho... more power, but more weight... 205 was and is a perfect balance, the Williams is a perfect balance, hot hatches now are over rated, the fastest hot hatches round track were the old school reno brigade and the 205's... those 205's bloody shifted too and handled superbly. Fcuk NCAP, how about making proper cars again, this new era doesn't capture the imagination, in 10 years time we'll all be driving round in fcuking bubble cars.

 

[rory182]

i used to say that Paul lol

the 1.9 is a different kettle of fish, 1.6 handling is better

 

[Mondial172]

The 205 is much much more direct than a 182 or any modern hot hatch. You as a driver feel directly connected to the steering in a 205 GTi. I think a 182 is more user friendly than a 205 but give a real good driver a 205 and you'll see what can be done. JONGSR4 had a 1.6 (also a 1.9) and down the back roads you really get to see what a roller coaster ride that little car can give you. £250 well spent! and soooo many newer cars left in its wake.
Badly needs more power though. Didn't like the 1.9's gearing! Far Far too long compared to the 1.6 and the engine isn't revy enough.

 

[SteveC047]

I own a Trophy, and the part about not been able to adjust the car mid corner is a little mis informing. The Trophy can easily be adjusted mid corner, if you misjudge the turn in point or find yourself slighty wide, all you need to do is pull the steering wheel and it will change direction even at high speeds.

With regards to the lift off oversteer, TBH i prefer a car which is stable in and out of corners with power on or off. Yeah ok it takes some of the fun out of the driving, but at the end of the day you can push it quicker into a corner and keep you speed up for the exit.

I know which i would prefer.

 

[Mondial172]

Note to Jon - Please buy your 205 back off your dad as a weekend/fun/trackday car ;-)

 

[Turkish]

lol, 172/182s are easily adjusted mid bend, im forever swinging the ass out on mine on roundabouts and adjusting it on the throttle and steering. I think "better" is a subjective term. 205s handled very well but i think it's fair to say they also claimed a fair few victims and earned a reputation of having a back end that could bite you.

 

[Fred@BTM]

after spending the day at donnington "drifting" a standard valver, i want one!!

 

[chriscl]

I'd agree with Loony, having previously owned a 205Gti (in the dim and distant past) and currently a 182, the back end of the 205 was inclined to get a little loose on occasion...

But what fun! the 205 was so light, you could really throw it around, and it just made you smile when you pushed that accelerator - kind of like the 182 does now, really?

Maybe the 182 is a little more civilised, and the extra (welcome) safety equipment, including the ABS and Traction Control, tones things down a little, but it's still probably the most fun that can be had for the (new) price!

 

[KDF]

Having previously owned 2 1.6 GTi's I certainly do agree its far better handling tham my mk2 172... even with my 172 on sportlines.

 

[Ali]

It wouldn't surprise me at all...crackin wee cars. The trophy is nout special...

 

[stu8v]

If you think the 205 gti was good you should have sampled a Alfasud Ti it would p155 all over the pug.

 

[Rich]

Another previous 205 GTI owner here, not had the chance to drive a trophy though, but a 205 is a hard act to follow as they handle so well, that said get it wrong on the limit and it will bite you and hurt if you get it wrong. Todays hot hatch buyers would never put up with the edgyness and on the edge limits of a 205 GTi which is why modern day hatches are tame in comparison. If you have owned a 205 Gti and never had it out of shape in a big way you never drove it hard enough. So sweet when you get it right, but when all it takes is a small amount of throttle lift off to get it so sideways, leathal if you get it wrong.

 

[Munson]

The 205 might have had 'better handling' (yes I have driven one hard) but I doubt it's able to carry as much speed into any bend as a 182/Cup/Trophy on or off the track.

Give any 205 GTi the power/weight of a 182/Cup/Trophy and I reckon it'll be a total dog to drive fast on a twisty B (factor in the 182 having to dull down the steering to take the power). It's lighter and more chuckable, but it's not a faster road tool from A-B. It's old and doesnt have AC, and if you crash it it's game over.

 

[Little Newms]

Deal with it folks...... The Clio's aint the best car's on the road! There very average

 

[Munson]

Deal with it folks...... The Clio's aint the best car's on the road! There very average

Based on what criteria mate? The RS Clios are not average at eating tarmac from A-B. Many a 'fast' car owner will testify that, including my mate in his 350z.

For fast fun from A-B they are superb, but pretty average for everything esle, granted.

 

[seb]

indeed Newms but people wll fight for the clio till the end1 and good for them hey Roy?

 

[Munson]

I just think if you find the Cliosports 'average' then you clearly dont know how to drive.

[EDIT] In the realms of hot hatches I mean.

 

[Rich]

The 205 might have had 'better handling' (yes I have driven one hard) but I doubt it's able to carry as much speed into any bend as a 182/Cup/Trophy on or off the track.

Give any 205 GTi the power/weight of a 182/Cup/Trophy and I reckon it'll be a total dog to drive fast on a twisty B (factor in the 182 having to dull down the steering to take the power). It's lighter and more chuckable, but it's not a faster road tool from A-B. It's old and doesnt have AC, and if you crash it it's game over.

I think you will be suprised if you meet an Mi16'd 205 on the road.

 

[Munson]

I said a dog to drive, as in not as sweet as the 182. But yeah I'm sure it would be as quick

 

[Evandim*]

I am so glad so many pple say the same..
last year I sold my 205GTi and brought a mk2 172 I have said from day one that the 172 doesnt feel so good at handling as my 205, or maybe its just me being a wimp and not trusting the 172 however I dont have the girlie button (Traction Control)to fall back on...
But like everything its a trade off, its a smoother drive in the 172, plus it is a safer car in a crash and other things ;-)

 

[Evandim*]

I think you will be suprised if you meet an Mi16'd 205 on the road.

i think a few car owners have been very suprised meeting a 205 on the track I have seen many 205's make modern day cars look like transit van lol

sorry if this upsets some pple but sometimes the truth hurts lol

 

[Rich]

Yeah sold mine last October want another one now!

 

[Paul J]

Todays hot hatch buyers would never put up with the edgyness and on the edge limits of a 205 GTi which is why modern day hatches are tame in comparison.

Plenty would tho, less lethal than the Clio v6 i'd imagine and given safety features now not so bad if you do spin into something (hopefully).

205 is still king, long live the king lol

 

[Pete]

205GTi is the only car I've had that I'd consider having again! Awsome car, sooo much better than any 172/182/Cheap/Fisher Price Trophy thing, as Chavy Newms says get over yourselves, the RenaultSport Clio is not the greatest hothatch/car in the world.

 

[jongsr4]

205 GTI in my opinion has much better handling than the RS clio, ive had both the 1.6 and 1.9 varients, without doubt the 1.6 has the best handling of any hatch ive ever driven, sure the clio is faster, but who cares really, the 205 GTI 1.6 left me with a grin that the Cup never managed to do (even though it was great too) the 205 GTI just has that extra something that to be honest ive yet to experience again

to drive a 205 GTI 1.6 down a tight twisting country lane is an enthralling experience, that everyone should experience at least one

Adamf.......ill try lol

 

[lawrence]

a thread about clio vs 205 and not a mention about the williams being the greatest, maybe i should post this up on williamsclio.co.uk, i like how every car journo refers to a 205 when reviewing hot hatches,

 

[rory182]

comparison. If you have owned a 205 Gti and never had it out of shape in a big way you never drove it hard enough.

u talking 1.9 I take it?

I used to put the arse out on my 1.6 in the wet deliberatley because you knew you could predict it. Never ever had it out of shape in a big way, and I drive hard.

 

[jongsr4]

a thread about clio vs 205 and not a mention about the williams being the greatest, maybe i should post this up on williamsclio.co.uk, i like how every car journo refers to a 205 when reviewing hot hatches,

The article was comparing the 182 to a 205 GTI, thats why theres no mention of the Williams.

 

[Rich]

u talking 1.9 I take it?

I used to put the arse out on my 1.6 in the wet deliberatley because you knew you could predict it. Never ever had it out of shape in a big way, and I drive hard.

Yeah 1.9, playing that game in the wet would lead to tears! My old 306 however you could LOO wet or dry and more or less know what it was going to do.

 

[TheJesus]

I just think if you find the Cliosports 'average' then you clearly dont know how to drive. QUOTE]

no, i'd say the first part of your statement was correct, these cars are pretty damn easy to drive fast and dont really bite you... just ask Yoz... twitched out BIG STYLE at the weekend on track, but he handled it after absolutely broad siding it... oh, we were going past EVERYTHING too, nothing could keep up. Clio Sport were kicking everyones arse full stop... so either they are s**t hot, or we are ALL superior drivers... I'd say i'm average and it's the car that flatters me tho