35-40mm or 60mm

[viceroy]

Ive just gotten a reply email to a query I sent to my local Koenic Suspension distributor.

He was talking about springs which would lower my car by 35-40mm which was all well and good.

Then he mentioned 60mm springs but said they dont drop the car by 60mm but rather by about 35-40mm and were designed to be used with up-rated shocks. does this mean that all the people that have dropped their cars by 60mm are actually damaging or at least wearing out their shocks at a really accelerated rate.

 

[Captain Slarty]

yes.

 

[viceroy]

hmmm. Next question.

For normal street driving (and I do like taking some reletively high speed tight bends on occasion)

What sort of difference would I feel between

a) Standard Shocks & 40mm Springs

b) Uprated Shocks & 40mm Springs

c) Uprated Shocks & 60mm Springs

 

[Captain Slarty]

firstly you need to get a few things into perspective..

UPRATED shocks.. hmmmm. a catch all phrase...

there are shocks that have increased rebound settings for use with stronger springs.. the shocks only purpose in life is to control bounce nothing more.. more correctly, to control the oscilation of the spring in a known manner.

If you increase the spring rate, you would need to increase the rebound of the shock.

Then you have shocks that are physically shorter so that there is no binding (hitting the stops) on deflection caused by a shorter spring.

If the spring is shorter, but the same rate, then shorter, std setting shocks are needed.

If the spring is uprated, the shock needs uprating and matched for size (how far it can compress)

then, we come to the oft asked question you pose.. will it handle better..

There is no fixed answer to this, it depends on the original setup. If the original setup was designed to accomodate body roll (as in a 172) then by lowering and stiffening you are limiting this roll, good ??.. nope, not necessarily...... as the weight is transferred to the loaded wheel the suspension compresses and causes a change in camber (negative), this is a FEATURE, ie - needed... to not allow the depression of the suspension to roll on neg camber on the loaded wheel will induce understeer.. not assist it.. with a change of camber, you can compensate, but, you cant easily change the camber settings or rates. The other tendancy is for the lowering to increase neg camber (depending again on suspension design!) gloabally, this can be good, but can also mean a more sudden breakaway at the limit with little , if any feel fed back to the driver.

If the car has a tendancy to maintain a flatter camber in roll, then it may be seen as benefical to the handling by reducing the body roll and weight transferance (as in the lower spec clio models), what you ae doing is reducing the change to maintain predictability.

Your shocks play no direct part in this at all (it is the spring that does the goodies) the shock is there to damp the movement, so is obviously dependent on 2 factors only, length - open and compressed, and rate, compression and rebound.

So, an answer to one of lifes great mysteries lol.. as in, will loweing improve my handling..

Not necessarily...

 

[Fred@BTM]

deck it 60mm!!!!!

 

[Roamer]

That quote came from Fred"If it dont scrape the floor it aint low"2001Dynamic

LoL

 

[Captain Slarty]

ah yes, the same one as..



it only goes good in a striaght line

fame.. I see.. ; lol

 

[Paul16V]

I cant turn my steering much cos mines so low. Its more trouble than its worth probably. Go about 40mm for practicality but if you wanna be the daddy deck it 60mm. I probably would but then again im a bit silly

 

[Leanne]

Hey Viceroy....

Some interesting info from a girl (wtf??)

I had my clio lowered at R-tec in St Albans....good people, very precise, lowered the front about 35mm and the back went down to match.

10 months later I replaced my alloys, and then I noticed it, the back was way lower than the front!!!

In checking how much 60mm drop springs would be was told you have to uprate shocks or you will wear them in no time out and they will leak.



Clio is still looking a bit lobsided but handles very well and so whilst I cant afford the change will leave as is for now.



Leannexxx

 

[Fred@BTM]

Mine doesnt scrape 60mm down with 17s, im getting coilovers next with custom springs im going for about 80mm!!! Sod handling its a 1.2

 

[ClioJohn]

That quote came from Fred"If it dont scrape the floor it aint low"2001Dynamic

Hehe i quite like the idea of that

fred your some guy, did you get your 17s back on yet

 

[Fred@BTM]

Yeah, theyve been on for ages (two of them are seized on, i cant get them off!!!!!!!)

 

[ClioJohn]

nice one, blame renault

 

[viceroy]

HeHeHe.

My front wheels were rusted to the discs. Took me ages to wiggle them off.

I reckon what Ill do is go for the 60mm springs, providing the "Gabriel Gas Riders" are not too expensive. The Gas Riders are the locally recommended "uprated shocks" for lowered cars. Its either that or spend mega bucks on a Bilstein kit.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Standard socks can handle it fine, ive had mine on for about 12months now with the 60mm springs

 

[ClioJohn]

had your socks on for 12 months eh, get a wash ya dirty mink

 

[James20VT]

LOL

Signup for the new Daz advert, see if they can get those white!

 

[Fred@BTM]

oooops!!!! I was in a rush to get to work!!!!! I have actually had my socks on for quite a while!!!!!

 

[ClioJohn]

aye 4.24am, out on the piss or something were you?

 

[Daz]

Nah, We aint accepting signups right now.

.

Daz.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Went for a wee sesion after work lol!!!!! Very funny DAZ

 

[Dunc Maclean]

if u want qualitly handling lower it about 35-40mm with the rear sitting slightly higher, but if ur like me and want to be the king of low, then get some avo height adjustable coilovers, put the front down 80mm+ and the rear bar as low as u dare go mate!!! get that zorst scraping!

Dunc

 

[Gareth]

i had mine lowered 60mm on 17s like Fred, but i am now getting a 172 and the older clio has had the 17s removed and the original springs replaced, one of the wheel bearings has already gone and god knows what else is going to happen... something to think about.

Gaz 2130

 

[Gareth]

PS. the 60mm springs had only been on 12 months.

 

[ClioJohn]

i take it the dynam dont have a torsion bar, its 4 springs yea

 

[viceroy]

Yep, clios from 1998 onwards dont have torsion bars, just 4 springs

 

[ClioJohn]

i seen a dynam lowered at my work today. big meaty twin exhaust. got a few numbers of him, gonna get mine lowered next month. waiting on the new ripspeed opening so i can get my springs. 30percent discount for staff on opening weekend. ahha

 

[viceroy]

Well Ive kinda decided on my upgrade path.

1.) fix hole in exhaust on friday (driving me nuts)
2.) drop suspension (either Jamex or Koni 40mm drop with uprated dampers)
3.) either put a K&N airfilter in my current airbox or get something similar to what Nick Read did with that BMC carbon job
4.) Remus Exhaust system
5.) N2O Kit (start with 25hp jets)

 

[Fred@BTM]

Do 60mm!!!!! 40mm is boring!!!!

 

[ClioJohn]

nitrous in a 1.4 whats the point. why not just spend money on a faster car

 

[viceroy]

Nitrous on a 1.4 will give me the same performance as a 1.6 when i want it for much less than a new car...anyway I like my car and it doesnt give problems and the nitrous will keep me sorted until I start doing more mods to the engine. When the car is paid off I might consider a newer faster model and i dont think Ill even sell this car when I get a new one. anyway, its so much fun coming up behind a BMW or Golf or whatever and giving them a nice suprise when they think all I have is a little 1,4

Fred...Im still considering 60mm on my car...and my exhaust was sorted for free today so it looks like the drop will be coming very soon, maybe even a xmas pressie