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A Monaco Blue 2002 Clio 172
- Thread starter SiC
- Start date
Certainly hefty lumps of steel these Renault tools. Should be for what they cost!
The remaining bits of the mister auto order also came today. I don't need the pulley bolt anymore and the air filter is completely wrong shape. Let's hope the water pump is a bit better!
Local car parts shop reckon they can get a pulley in for tomorrow and it's "only" 40 quid. I better take the old one with me as I don't want to guess my chances on it being the same. I'm wondering if it will be a Mégane/Clio3/Laguna job.
The remaining bits of the mister auto order also came today. I don't need the pulley bolt anymore and the air filter is completely wrong shape. Let's hope the water pump is a bit better!
Local car parts shop reckon they can get a pulley in for tomorrow and it's "only" 40 quid. I better take the old one with me as I don't want to guess my chances on it being the same. I'm wondering if it will be a Mégane/Clio3/Laguna job.
botfch
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 182
It will be aftermarket or not an RS one, genuine renault price on rpd is £160 for the MK3 pulley.
www.renaultpartsdirect.co.uk
Renault Crankshaft Pulley 8200619927 F4R 2.0 Petrol
Renault Crankshaft Pulley 8200619927 F4R 2.0 Petrol - Renault Parts Direct - Renault Parts Direct is a web based service from our authorised Renault dealer.
www.renaultpartsdirect.co.uk
Loving this thread!
It will be aftermarket or not an RS one, genuine renault price on rpd is £160 for the MK3 pulley.
Renault Crankshaft Pulley 8200619927 F4R 2.0 Petrol
Renault Crankshaft Pulley 8200619927 F4R 2.0 Petrol - Renault Parts Direct - Renault Parts Direct is a web based service from our authorised Renault dealer.
Yeah I've spent too much already, so quite happy to get an aftermarket one if its more than a third the price!
Krarl
ClioSport Club Member
Don't use anything Bolk branded if you like straight valves
I'm pretty sure the parts are formed using spit and piss. For the extra £80-£120 I'd rather get a proper one and not worry about the pistons having furious sex with the valves
I'm pretty sure the parts are formed using spit and piss. For the extra £80-£120 I'd rather get a proper one and not worry about the pistons having furious sex with the valves
It's a sorry tale of one man's descent into financial misery while attempting to fight French automotive manufacturing prowess. 😂
I definitely want a damped pulley and not interested in any of the lightened jobs. If anything, an added bit of added crank weight should help smoothen the idle!
The quality of it did pass through my mind. For the price, I was going to see what it was like and the general build quality. If crap send it back. However no option of that now from them.
No idea what I'm going to get from the local motorfactor.
Coops Mk1
ClioSport Club Member
Lots of Scrap...
I personally would only every buy genuine for as long as possible for engine rotational assembly components. once you are 6/7/800 quid in why risk another 100 for a cheaper alternative?
apart from that, loving your work and dedication, I recently had the lot done on my little blue heap, full belts, harmonic balancer, dephaser, water pump, aircon recommissioned, all fluids, clutch, crank oil seal, sump gasket etc etc.............but i just paid a @MicKPM to do it for me as in all honesty working on these engines with all the standard stuff all still there is an absolute pig, these days i only work on the track orientated car as its that much simpler! lol!
apart from that, loving your work and dedication, I recently had the lot done on my little blue heap, full belts, harmonic balancer, dephaser, water pump, aircon recommissioned, all fluids, clutch, crank oil seal, sump gasket etc etc.............but i just paid a @MicKPM to do it for me as in all honesty working on these engines with all the standard stuff all still there is an absolute pig, these days i only work on the track orientated car as its that much simpler! lol!
Krarl
ClioSport Club Member
Honestly its one thing I wouldn't cheap out on if youre not gonna be running a meg bottom pulley.
Its like when people don't change a waterpump or dephaser when doing a belt. Just spend the extra £150 now rather than put it back together and then realise its gargling its c**t off
Its like when people don't change a waterpump or dephaser when doing a belt. Just spend the extra £150 now rather than put it back together and then realise its gargling its c**t off
I understand that but of course like most Renault parts, they're not made by them. Pretty sure the £100 pulley from Pure Motorsports is this one: https://m.autodoc.co.uk/ijs-group/7933730
IJS are a Spanish manufacturer of pulleys. The listing on Pure Motorsports website mention proudly it's made in Spain. But I'm sure Pure wouldn't want you to know they're IJS or similar as people will just find out where to get them much cheaper!
IJS are a Spanish manufacturer of pulleys. The listing on Pure Motorsports website mention proudly it's made in Spain. But I'm sure Pure wouldn't want you to know they're IJS or similar as people will just find out where to get them much cheaper!
So last night I cracked on with the water pump. Not something I particularly enjoy doing on any car. I hate dealing with liquids on a car, the water pump bolts invariably round or snap off and they can end up leaking.
First order of business was draining the system. As the bumper was off I went through the side underneath the headlight. I'm point to the pipe here:
I replaced the bottom clip while I was at it. A) because these are horrible to undo when they're in a tight place (even with the proper tool), B) it was pretty crusty looking. I can't remember the exact size but it was a spare I had from doing the radiators on the Boxster. So it's an official Porsche clip on my Renault. 😆
Water pump is here
I was being super careful with the bolts trying my best not to damage them. Each one I was both pushing the ratchet hard into the fixing to reduce the risk of slippage and turning the ratchet.
This miraculously meant all the bolts came out without a fight.
Engine dropped to bottom allowed the pump to easily be removed.
Something was stuck around the pump rotor. I think it's rubber sealant that someone used to seal the gasket on. No doubt why you're not supposed to use it on it. Also means this pump is not original and it's been changed at least once in the cars life.
Next job was removing the gasket. This went really easy with a proper gasket scraper. Cleaned up best as I could and used some really fine sandpaper to gently clean off the face.
Bolts removed were pretty filthy and crusty.
Cleaned up well with a bit of degreaser and a wire brush
First order of business was draining the system. As the bumper was off I went through the side underneath the headlight. I'm point to the pipe here:
I replaced the bottom clip while I was at it. A) because these are horrible to undo when they're in a tight place (even with the proper tool), B) it was pretty crusty looking. I can't remember the exact size but it was a spare I had from doing the radiators on the Boxster. So it's an official Porsche clip on my Renault. 😆
Water pump is here
I was being super careful with the bolts trying my best not to damage them. Each one I was both pushing the ratchet hard into the fixing to reduce the risk of slippage and turning the ratchet.
This miraculously meant all the bolts came out without a fight.
Engine dropped to bottom allowed the pump to easily be removed.
Something was stuck around the pump rotor. I think it's rubber sealant that someone used to seal the gasket on. No doubt why you're not supposed to use it on it. Also means this pump is not original and it's been changed at least once in the cars life.
Next job was removing the gasket. This went really easy with a proper gasket scraper. Cleaned up best as I could and used some really fine sandpaper to gently clean off the face.
Bolts removed were pretty filthy and crusty.
Cleaned up well with a bit of degreaser and a wire brush
Gasket on with a bolt through to stop it falling off when marrying up the surfaces.
Then pump in and bolted up. I did actually torque these properly. Usually don't bother with a lot of things like this, but given they have a habit of seizing on, I felt it made sense to do them up correctly. That way the next person won't have to fight as hard to undo them if they are partially seized.
Then pump in and bolted up. I did actually torque these properly. Usually don't bother with a lot of things like this, but given they have a habit of seizing on, I felt it made sense to do them up correctly. That way the next person won't have to fight as hard to undo them if they are partially seized.
Now something I need to admit I was wrong on. I was always a believer that the genuine Renault timing tools was bit of a farce. Really expensive (even for OEM timing tools) and it's only needs to be a bit of laser/water cut steel in the right size with a cut down bolt for the TDC pin.
However I didn't have the cam pulley locking plate. You can buy it aftermarket but I decided if I got genuine, I should be able to easily flog the tools on again later. So they arrived today.
They really are substantial pieces of kit in comparison. Way heavier and machined from much harder steel. I guess tool steel.
Last night I changed over from the Laser tools to Renault. The Laser crank pin fitted in easily like this with barely any movement of the crank.
However the Renault pin would not fit with the crank in the same place!
When you eyeball them side by side they look identical size.
I know you risk getting the crank in the wrong place and putting the pin into the wrong part. Like this:
According to the service manual, you can verify its in the right place by looking at the keyway on the end of the crank. It should be in the middle of the two casting webs on the cover. Which it is on mine.
After a lot of fighting, including going way past the original markings and trying to find the correct place again, I managed to get it in. Ended up quite a battle and I was worried I'd not find it. Especially as the pulley and belt was off at this point. I resorted to making small movements on the flywheel with a screwdriver and rechecking. The Laser pin actually came in handy here as it allowed me to lock it when close, then small adjustments until I could get the Renault pin in.
So you probably can time up your engine just fine with the Laser tool. However you won't be getting it anywhere near as close compared to the much tighter tolerances of the Renault tool. I don't think you'll do any damage with the Laser tool but if you're after spot on performance then you need the Renault tool. Especially as these are both sensitive to timing but also not that quick nowadays, so useful to get all the performance you can.
I'm looking forward to getting this all done and giving it a drive. I'm intrigued to see how much quicker (or potentially not!) it is and if that idle has smoothened off.
However I didn't have the cam pulley locking plate. You can buy it aftermarket but I decided if I got genuine, I should be able to easily flog the tools on again later. So they arrived today.
They really are substantial pieces of kit in comparison. Way heavier and machined from much harder steel. I guess tool steel.
Last night I changed over from the Laser tools to Renault. The Laser crank pin fitted in easily like this with barely any movement of the crank.
However the Renault pin would not fit with the crank in the same place!
When you eyeball them side by side they look identical size.
I know you risk getting the crank in the wrong place and putting the pin into the wrong part. Like this:
According to the service manual, you can verify its in the right place by looking at the keyway on the end of the crank. It should be in the middle of the two casting webs on the cover. Which it is on mine.
After a lot of fighting, including going way past the original markings and trying to find the correct place again, I managed to get it in. Ended up quite a battle and I was worried I'd not find it. Especially as the pulley and belt was off at this point. I resorted to making small movements on the flywheel with a screwdriver and rechecking. The Laser pin actually came in handy here as it allowed me to lock it when close, then small adjustments until I could get the Renault pin in.
So you probably can time up your engine just fine with the Laser tool. However you won't be getting it anywhere near as close compared to the much tighter tolerances of the Renault tool. I don't think you'll do any damage with the Laser tool but if you're after spot on performance then you need the Renault tool. Especially as these are both sensitive to timing but also not that quick nowadays, so useful to get all the performance you can.
I'm looking forward to getting this all done and giving it a drive. I'm intrigued to see how much quicker (or potentially not!) it is and if that idle has smoothened off.
Forgot to mention that there is a bit of movement in the dephaser when the cams were locked. Going from the workshop manual, I don't think there should be any? If so, replacing it was a good idea.
Cambelt bits arrived today.
Just need to go checkout this crank pulley next and hope it's the right one. If not it'll be another expensive order from Renault Parts Direct [emoji51]
Cambelt bits arrived today.
Just need to go checkout this crank pulley next and hope it's the right one. If not it'll be another expensive order from Renault Parts Direct [emoji51]
I don't like to criticise someone elses work, especially when done by a professional but I think you might be right and had been pondering similar.
I reckon this not because of the tipex marks (Renault manual tells you to). But if you remove the tool and de-tension the cams with the belt off, you get the tool in the same place as when I had the cambelt on. You do have to move the cams to get the tool in, presumably because they don't naturally centre as they're under valve spring pressure.
Position of the cams with the belt on
Natural position of the cams with the belt off
Robbie Corbett
ClioSport Club Member
Robbie Corbett
ClioSport Club Member
Is the Dolomite yours? 1850?
It feels like they already have conformal coating on. Unfortunately I guess that's no help if acidic rain sits on it for long periods and eats away at it.
It's a genuine Sprint! [emoji2]
Poor thing has been sitting there waiting for its turn to be welded up in a few areas (mainly arches, dash/windscreen area, wings) and a bunch of mechanicals sorting (carb need rebuild, coolant pipes changing, dampers replacing, etc). It's doing it no favours been out in this weather. [emoji22]
I need to hurry up with the Clio and get it out, so the Dolly can go in.
Robbie Corbett
ClioSport Club Member
You know how I said about the cheapest example you can buy being the most expensive ... Yup it's something I did with the Dolomite [emoji86]
Local part shop handed me an idler pulley. So only one thing left for it...
HRRRRRRNG
f**k me has this job escalated and cost a small fortune.
Weighed up all the different options. Well the only one left is a second hand one. Given I've spent £700 so far (excluding tools), what is it to spend another £162? Especially as they seem prone to failing, I don't want to be doing this again anytime soon.
Car better bloody appreciate it. Probably decide to slip it's clutch next or have a gear drop out. 😬
No car work tonight as there are only so many days that I can do a full-time job from 10am to 7pm and then under a car till 12:30am. Also need to be up early to get my wife's car into the local garage for a service. Which means more car related expenses 😫
HRRRRRRNG
f**k me has this job escalated and cost a small fortune.
Weighed up all the different options. Well the only one left is a second hand one. Given I've spent £700 so far (excluding tools), what is it to spend another £162? Especially as they seem prone to failing, I don't want to be doing this again anytime soon.
Car better bloody appreciate it. Probably decide to slip it's clutch next or have a gear drop out. 😬
No car work tonight as there are only so many days that I can do a full-time job from 10am to 7pm and then under a car till 12:30am. Also need to be up early to get my wife's car into the local garage for a service. Which means more car related expenses 😫
Coops Mk1
ClioSport Club Member
Lots of Scrap...
Cracking work and without saying hate to say told you so but us seasoned Renault pro's, particularly with the f4r lumps in the mk2 sports, always say buy genuine everything for a reason. Particularly on anything at all to do with the engines!
Easy to see why so many cars have left the roads too now, home mechanic timing belt jobs running into nearly the cost of the car, let alone asking a garage to do it, means many many Clio's have simply been scrapped as uneconomical to maintain and only the dedicated core fans remain
Easy to see why so many cars have left the roads too now, home mechanic timing belt jobs running into nearly the cost of the car, let alone asking a garage to do it, means many many Clio's have simply been scrapped as uneconomical to maintain and only the dedicated core fans remain
Crank pulley arrived yesterday. No way is it worth £163. But needs must and these currently are hens teeth to get hold of.
First off last night I got on with assembling the cam pulley locking tool. This comes as a main set and then an adapter piece that you need to fit for these F4R with a dephaser.
Then putting it on the car and getting the pulleys undone. The inlet (dephaser) pulley came undone really easy. Exhaust was a right b**ch. Not only the Aircon pipes got in the way, this was really stuck. I had to uber tighten the cam locking plate as it kept coming undone and made the pulleys move. No ideal when you're putting a crap load of force onto a pulley that is attached to the valves. I also removed the cam locking tool as I really didn't want to damage the end of the cam when doing this. A screwdriver wedged into the locking arms while pushing against the dephaser helped here. I was replacing the dephaser anyway so didn't care if I damaged it.
Moving the jack to the front helped here as it naturally moved the block forwards and gave a bit more access away from the Aircon pipes.
Eventually I got it undone.
Then removed the seals. The exhaust side again was a pain to remove the seal. I'll shamefully admit I did scratch the cam when doing this. It's super soft material and pushing the backside of the seal puller was enough.
The seals went in easy enough. I did push the exhaust seal back a bit further so it rode on an area away from the scratch I put in.
I then put the exhaust pulley and the new inlet pulley back on.
First off last night I got on with assembling the cam pulley locking tool. This comes as a main set and then an adapter piece that you need to fit for these F4R with a dephaser.
Then putting it on the car and getting the pulleys undone. The inlet (dephaser) pulley came undone really easy. Exhaust was a right b**ch. Not only the Aircon pipes got in the way, this was really stuck. I had to uber tighten the cam locking plate as it kept coming undone and made the pulleys move. No ideal when you're putting a crap load of force onto a pulley that is attached to the valves. I also removed the cam locking tool as I really didn't want to damage the end of the cam when doing this. A screwdriver wedged into the locking arms while pushing against the dephaser helped here. I was replacing the dephaser anyway so didn't care if I damaged it.
Moving the jack to the front helped here as it naturally moved the block forwards and gave a bit more access away from the Aircon pipes.
Eventually I got it undone.
Then removed the seals. The exhaust side again was a pain to remove the seal. I'll shamefully admit I did scratch the cam when doing this. It's super soft material and pushing the backside of the seal puller was enough.
The seals went in easy enough. I did push the exhaust seal back a bit further so it rode on an area away from the scratch I put in.
I then put the exhaust pulley and the new inlet pulley back on.
On Thursday I took my wife's car into my local garage for a service. I was chatting to the guys there that I know well and talking about this job. He said the first floating cam job he did was in the early 2000 on a Laguna. Used tip-ex being none the wiser, turned over by hand and the first start went ... Brrr Ting and locked solid! He phoned up his mate up who worked at Renault dealer and he replied "Did you use the proper locking tools?" "No" "You fucked it then!". Head off and a pair of bent valves. He was very surprised that this would have been done like that as everyone who he knows has done it, has killed a F4R/F4P/K4M. If it did then it was only a matter of time as the belt naturally stretched to put it far enough to smash bits.
Anyway I mentioned that the bottom sprocket appeared stuck on mine. He said that if it was him, if it wasn't freely movable by hand then he'd strongly recommend getting it loose. So I set away with some WD40 equivalent sprayed in and then a rubber mallet with a wooden block.
After a bit of bashing it started moving. Then bashing it back and forth got it loose enough to pull off. Gave the inside surface a good clean with degreaser.
Now this is how freely movable it is.
Then I removed all the final pulleys. These were pretty stuck as well and required the use of a breaker bar.
Now the Renault kit comes with a single bolt and spacer. I couldn't find anything either in the instructions or online guides on where it's supposed to go.
The pulleys that were new are on the left in this picture. Old ones are on the right. Ribbed pulley is the bottom one. The old ones are from a Dayco kit.
The new ribbed pulley has a lot thicker bearing. So much so that the shouldered spacer that came off wouldn't fit. I guessed that this was the one for the new bolt. Putting them against the one that came off the car, showed they'd be the same distance.
With it all on the car, the two pulleys were parallel and level. The block is slightly inset on the bottom, so this is why I think it needed the extra distance compared to the too one. So I think it's right.
Then putting the belt on. I first tried it with all the pulleys on and the tensioner loose. However I just couldn't get it on. Ended up instead taking off the tensioner pulley, belt on and then putting on the tensioner pulley. This was easier except the fact there is a pin out the back you need to line up on the block. I did this by turning the 6mm Allen head tensioner while pushing the tensioner. This eventually located it in place.
You can see the pin out the back on this.
I forgot to take a picture but the tensioner then needs tensioning. This is done by moving the arm with a 6mm Allen key until a cut out lines up with an arrow on the front.
Belts are now on and tensioned up. Cam locking tool is still in at this point.
Workshop manual then calls to turn the freely loose cams around 6 times by turning the exhaust pulley with a special tool. I didn't have the special tool so I used my angle grinder key which worked fine. The bolts on the cams did keep tightening up, so I had to keep backing them off when they did. Probably ended up turning it over a good 8 or so times to make sure all was grand.
Now I need to get everything tightened up, remove the locking tools and turn over by hand again. Hopefully then it'll still be all in the right place. If not, I'll need to undo the pulley nuts and redo the timing. I think the tensioner may need adjusting too if it's out after turning? Not sure, but I imagine I'll find out when I do the next bit.
Anyway I mentioned that the bottom sprocket appeared stuck on mine. He said that if it was him, if it wasn't freely movable by hand then he'd strongly recommend getting it loose. So I set away with some WD40 equivalent sprayed in and then a rubber mallet with a wooden block.
After a bit of bashing it started moving. Then bashing it back and forth got it loose enough to pull off. Gave the inside surface a good clean with degreaser.
Now this is how freely movable it is.
Then I removed all the final pulleys. These were pretty stuck as well and required the use of a breaker bar.
Now the Renault kit comes with a single bolt and spacer. I couldn't find anything either in the instructions or online guides on where it's supposed to go.
The pulleys that were new are on the left in this picture. Old ones are on the right. Ribbed pulley is the bottom one. The old ones are from a Dayco kit.
The new ribbed pulley has a lot thicker bearing. So much so that the shouldered spacer that came off wouldn't fit. I guessed that this was the one for the new bolt. Putting them against the one that came off the car, showed they'd be the same distance.
With it all on the car, the two pulleys were parallel and level. The block is slightly inset on the bottom, so this is why I think it needed the extra distance compared to the too one. So I think it's right.
Then putting the belt on. I first tried it with all the pulleys on and the tensioner loose. However I just couldn't get it on. Ended up instead taking off the tensioner pulley, belt on and then putting on the tensioner pulley. This was easier except the fact there is a pin out the back you need to line up on the block. I did this by turning the 6mm Allen head tensioner while pushing the tensioner. This eventually located it in place.
You can see the pin out the back on this.
I forgot to take a picture but the tensioner then needs tensioning. This is done by moving the arm with a 6mm Allen key until a cut out lines up with an arrow on the front.
Belts are now on and tensioned up. Cam locking tool is still in at this point.
Workshop manual then calls to turn the freely loose cams around 6 times by turning the exhaust pulley with a special tool. I didn't have the special tool so I used my angle grinder key which worked fine. The bolts on the cams did keep tightening up, so I had to keep backing them off when they did. Probably ended up turning it over a good 8 or so times to make sure all was grand.
Now I need to get everything tightened up, remove the locking tools and turn over by hand again. Hopefully then it'll still be all in the right place. If not, I'll need to undo the pulley nuts and redo the timing. I think the tensioner may need adjusting too if it's out after turning? Not sure, but I imagine I'll find out when I do the next bit.
Is this the slowest cambelt change ever?
Did a bit more the other day when I got a free moment. Firstly rechecked the tensioner pulley to see if it had shifted from the belt being under tension.
It hadn't. Good.
Basically the bits I've marked in red on this old pulley need to line up. You do this by moving the arm and then nipping up the fixing nut.
Tightened up the pulleys and sprockets. Most of these are tightened up by an initial torque setting and then a final angle setting. I don't have an angle gauge, so I did it by eye. Exhaust pulley is 86 degrees +/- 6 degrees ... so 90 degrees. Easy enough.
Then the same on the crank pulley. Specs for this are all over the place. Even the Renault Workshop manual doesn't even agree with itself. I did 20nm torque and then 135 degrees (+/- 15 degrees). So basically marked 90 degrees, 180 degrees and did by eye the 45 degrees in the middle. 90degrees+45 degrees = 135 degrees.
Btw the 135nm that I've read elsewhere is way too tight. I did that with the first bolt but I got to around 110nm by the time it had moved over 180 degrees. I did that with a replacement bolt but it just didn't feel right when tightening it up. You know that feeling when tightening and it just doesn't give as much resistance as you expect?
I chucked that bolt out and went back to the original. The original I measured less than 49.1mm which is the Renault spec if you want to reuse it.
Rechecked tension ... and it was out again. Blah. Undid the nut, adjusted and tightened up again. Then spun the engine around to check it was correct.
At this point I left it for a day as the next steps was the aux belt. But was looking good.
Coming back I re-read through the instructions and came across this at the start...
IMPORTANT: it is essential to refit the lower timing cover before the crankshaft accessories pulley.
On fecking arses!
Off the bottom crank pulley comes again. Fiddly cover back on, tighten it's fixings and then crank pulley back on.
In this pic, it's a bit clearer how I tightened up the crank pulley. I marked on the pulley itself the starting point. Then used the 6 sides of the bolt as reference points. 0 degrees/60 degrees/120 degrees/180 degrees/240 degrees/300 degrees/360(or 0) degrees. So basically tightened to 20nm first and then 120 degrees and then a bit more.
Did a bit more the other day when I got a free moment. Firstly rechecked the tensioner pulley to see if it had shifted from the belt being under tension.
It hadn't. Good.
Basically the bits I've marked in red on this old pulley need to line up. You do this by moving the arm and then nipping up the fixing nut.
Tightened up the pulleys and sprockets. Most of these are tightened up by an initial torque setting and then a final angle setting. I don't have an angle gauge, so I did it by eye. Exhaust pulley is 86 degrees +/- 6 degrees ... so 90 degrees. Easy enough.
Then the same on the crank pulley. Specs for this are all over the place. Even the Renault Workshop manual doesn't even agree with itself. I did 20nm torque and then 135 degrees (+/- 15 degrees). So basically marked 90 degrees, 180 degrees and did by eye the 45 degrees in the middle. 90degrees+45 degrees = 135 degrees.
Btw the 135nm that I've read elsewhere is way too tight. I did that with the first bolt but I got to around 110nm by the time it had moved over 180 degrees. I did that with a replacement bolt but it just didn't feel right when tightening it up. You know that feeling when tightening and it just doesn't give as much resistance as you expect?
I chucked that bolt out and went back to the original. The original I measured less than 49.1mm which is the Renault spec if you want to reuse it.
Rechecked tension ... and it was out again. Blah. Undid the nut, adjusted and tightened up again. Then spun the engine around to check it was correct.
At this point I left it for a day as the next steps was the aux belt. But was looking good.
Coming back I re-read through the instructions and came across this at the start...
IMPORTANT: it is essential to refit the lower timing cover before the crankshaft accessories pulley.
On fecking arses!
Off the bottom crank pulley comes again. Fiddly cover back on, tighten it's fixings and then crank pulley back on.
In this pic, it's a bit clearer how I tightened up the crank pulley. I marked on the pulley itself the starting point. Then used the 6 sides of the bolt as reference points. 0 degrees/60 degrees/120 degrees/180 degrees/240 degrees/300 degrees/360(or 0) degrees. So basically tightened to 20nm first and then 120 degrees and then a bit more.
Then rechecked my marker to ensure the pulley hadn't slipped.
I'm quite happy these bolts are tightened up correctly now. Quite crucial as they hold all the timing in place.
Turned the engine over again by hand to make sure everything is sweet. I have the plugs out at the moment so I can accurately feel it going over without fighting the engine compression.
Put the upper alloy cambelt cover on.
Tensioner in. Hard to see because it's so tight in there.
Special service tool in place but not tightened just yet.
Btw this is the size I used.
Alternator back in (yes this is awkward and fiddly)
Tightened the special service tool. At this point my fingers kept well away from it.
Then belt on. I had to undo the alternator top bolt to give me a bit more room to get the belt on as really tight.
Finally double checked the path of the belt. Realised then I the belt around is the wrong side of the bottom idler pulley. Argh.
I didn't want to de-tension the tensioner as it is a faff and quite dangerous thing to be tightening up. So instead I pushed the belt off the pulley with a pry bar, screwdriver and socket extension.
Finally turned the engine over again for good measure.
I'm now at the point where I can start putting the rest of it back together. Intended to put fresh oil in as it's been sitting for a good few weeks now, so most of it will have drained. Also will give the dephaser nice fresh new oil too. Must remember to fill the coolant back up as well!
I'll probably put a few bits back together on the front so I can get the battery on first. Then turn it over without the plugs in and fuel pump relay out to check. Finally plugs in and without the fuel pump relay to check under compression.
Then maybe even go for a first start [emoji51][emoji1696]
I'm quite happy these bolts are tightened up correctly now. Quite crucial as they hold all the timing in place.
Turned the engine over again by hand to make sure everything is sweet. I have the plugs out at the moment so I can accurately feel it going over without fighting the engine compression.
Put the upper alloy cambelt cover on.
Tensioner in. Hard to see because it's so tight in there.
Special service tool in place but not tightened just yet.
Btw this is the size I used.
Alternator back in (yes this is awkward and fiddly)
Tightened the special service tool. At this point my fingers kept well away from it.
Then belt on. I had to undo the alternator top bolt to give me a bit more room to get the belt on as really tight.
Finally double checked the path of the belt. Realised then I the belt around is the wrong side of the bottom idler pulley. Argh.
I didn't want to de-tension the tensioner as it is a faff and quite dangerous thing to be tightening up. So instead I pushed the belt off the pulley with a pry bar, screwdriver and socket extension.
Finally turned the engine over again for good measure.
I'm now at the point where I can start putting the rest of it back together. Intended to put fresh oil in as it's been sitting for a good few weeks now, so most of it will have drained. Also will give the dephaser nice fresh new oil too. Must remember to fill the coolant back up as well!
I'll probably put a few bits back together on the front so I can get the battery on first. Then turn it over without the plugs in and fuel pump relay out to check. Finally plugs in and without the fuel pump relay to check under compression.
Then maybe even go for a first start [emoji51][emoji1696]
One extra thing to mention is the accuracy of the cam timing. The Renault Workshop manual mentions that the tool needs to be freely fitting without forcing.
On the Laser tool it is.
Renault tool however is a very snug fit and requires a bit of a push to get in. No doubt because it's much more accurately made and closer tolerances.
I'd like the get the Renault tool as freely fitting as the Laser tool but that'd require loosening it all up and doing it again. As the cams are under tension when timing from both the valve springs and also the twisting of the cam, it is darn hard to get it set closer. If the cams freely moved and loose during putting the tool in, it would be alright. But they don't due to the setup of it. It could be possible to stick feeler gauge strips under the teeth of the back end of the cam, but trying this I could only get a 0.05mm feeler gauge in. Thin enough that it dented it!
Right now though it's pretty much bang on, way better than most people doing it DIY with the Laser tool and an order of magnitude closer than what it originally was set to! Given people have these running happily with the imprecise Laser tool and a fraction of a degree it would need to move on the current timing, I'm very happy that it's set bang on what it needs to be. There is also the risk if I did try getting it closer, it'd end up further out too. Especially as I adjusted this several times to get it closer.
I think it's when you tighten the cams up is when the timing moves ever so slightly. Despite having the locking plate on the cams. Probably from the metal twisting a fraction of an amount in the long cams.
I'd be interested to hear from anyone on here who have used the Renault tool if they've got it freely movable like you can with the Laser tool on mine at the moment?
On the Laser tool it is.
Renault tool however is a very snug fit and requires a bit of a push to get in. No doubt because it's much more accurately made and closer tolerances.
I'd like the get the Renault tool as freely fitting as the Laser tool but that'd require loosening it all up and doing it again. As the cams are under tension when timing from both the valve springs and also the twisting of the cam, it is darn hard to get it set closer. If the cams freely moved and loose during putting the tool in, it would be alright. But they don't due to the setup of it. It could be possible to stick feeler gauge strips under the teeth of the back end of the cam, but trying this I could only get a 0.05mm feeler gauge in. Thin enough that it dented it!
Right now though it's pretty much bang on, way better than most people doing it DIY with the Laser tool and an order of magnitude closer than what it originally was set to! Given people have these running happily with the imprecise Laser tool and a fraction of a degree it would need to move on the current timing, I'm very happy that it's set bang on what it needs to be. There is also the risk if I did try getting it closer, it'd end up further out too. Especially as I adjusted this several times to get it closer.
I think it's when you tighten the cams up is when the timing moves ever so slightly. Despite having the locking plate on the cams. Probably from the metal twisting a fraction of an amount in the long cams.
I'd be interested to hear from anyone on here who have used the Renault tool if they've got it freely movable like you can with the Laser tool on mine at the moment?
Robbie Corbett
ClioSport Club Member
Nice work,
I used this thread more times than I can count:
Its quite easy to wildly over or under torque bolts by guessing angles. I also found it a right faf to get the right tensioner angle using the Renault method. Far easier to nip up pulleys and spin engine over by hand without plugs in to check tension.
I think hats off for doing this with lump in the car!
I used this thread more times than I can count:
Modern - Clio 1x2 torque settings
This source has been aquired from ClioSport.net , CSOC and multiple other sources. Please let me know if any corrections are needed : ********************************************************************* Engine & Exhaust *********************************************************************...
turborenault.co.uk
Its quite easy to wildly over or under torque bolts by guessing angles. I also found it a right faf to get the right tensioner angle using the Renault method. Far easier to nip up pulleys and spin engine over by hand without plugs in to check tension.
I think hats off for doing this with lump in the car!
Robbie Corbett
ClioSport Club Member
PS. Have you got the Renault pulley locking tool on other end? I managed (with much faf) to get the Renault tool to be a free slide fit by carefully adjusting the cams using the pulley locking tool, they have a hex in the end so you can unlock them and rotate to move cams a little. (if that makes sense).
Robbie Corbett
ClioSport Club Member
Ultimately I doubt the 0.1 Deg timing error is going to be relevant to anything but felt like the right thing to do haha.
I wrote a long reply and the forum ate it. Anyway let's try again...
Basically I got the 130-140NM from that same info:
I got to 180 degrees with my torque wrench still not clicking at 135Nm. 100Nm clicked just passed 180 degrees. 110Nm went way past the 180. This point I wasn't happy with how far it had gone. So that 130-140Nm is no where near correct imo. Last thing I wanted is a bolt snapping in the end of the crank!
So took that new pulley bolt out and used the old bolt - that is still within the sub 49.1mm spec Renault specified if it was good for reuse. As the internet info doesn't seem right, I put my trust in the official Workshop manual figures. Even then, the Renault Workshop manual doesn't agree with itself! In the torque list it mentions 20Nm and 135 degrees (+/- 15 degrees). But in the text detailing the procedure, it mentions 20NM and 115 degrees (+/- 15 degrees)! Given it tightens up and holds the timing in place, I went for the larger of the two numbers.
In terms of measuring, I did mark it with a pen and using a right angle square to measure with. Also the bolt 6 headed corners make handy reference points - 0 degrees / 60 degrees / 120 degrees / 180 degrees / 240 degrees / 360 (or 0) degrees. Thus I tightened to 120 degrees plus a tad more for being on the safe side. That's then within both the 115 +/-15 degrees and 130 +/-15 degrees spec.
Exhaust cam was easy. Torque up and then turn 90 degrees. So have ratchet set dead vertical and then turn the 90 degrees to make a right angle from where you start.
Robbie Corbett
ClioSport Club Member
Ahh cool, your original explanation sounded more blase than your last. Given that I've seen mechanics buzz gun crank bolts back on seeming without breaking anything I'm sure you will be 1000% better off! I don't like not using the angle gauge as historically when I've done it (badly) I got distracted while some yob was chatting to me, got half way through and move the ratchet back round to the start which screwed the whole thing up (moron).
Did my crap explanation about adjusting the pulley locking tool make any sense? I wrote it on the phone and I'm not sure I did a good job of it.
Although I doubt its at all important as any error will be absolutely irrelevant but you can get a slide fit with the Renault horse shoe. Whens the nail biting start up happening?
Did my crap explanation about adjusting the pulley locking tool make any sense? I wrote it on the phone and I'm not sure I did a good job of it.
Although I doubt its at all important as any error will be absolutely irrelevant but you can get a slide fit with the Renault horse shoe. Whens the nail biting start up happening?
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Robbie Corbett
ClioSport Club Member
I was also dead worried about snapping the crank bolt or cam pulley bolts as I could see a stressful few evening ahead trying to extract the left overs 🤦♂️ thankfully not needed.
Yeah I can understand that. I'm just a guy working alone in his garage with a Spotify playlist, so no distractions! Thankfully as I'm easily distracted...
I did consider buying a angle gauge but all the ones off eBay and Amazon looked shite. My local motorfactors didn't have any in stock when I tried either. If the Renault tolerances were a bit tighter and the measurements more awkward (e.g. something like 142 +/- 1 degrees) I would have done.
I've checked, rechecked, redone, checked, rechecked and triple checked everything for countless times on this job! Which has made me fed up of doing this enough during the week that I've left the write up till this morning and even then I was lacking the energy to do it. I'm even procrastinating right now to go out side and just get it finished. 😂
Yeah it did and I replied about it in my original reply, but forgot to include it again in my replacement reply. I did try that and got it closer. But I had to do those nuts up on the cam pulley locking tool super tight to stop it all moving when tightening the pulleys. Despite my best efforts it still caused them to move slightly and go against the horseshoe tool.
I'm jealous of how loose yours is! Enough to make me tempted to do it again...
But the tool is not that tight a fit. Snug is the best word. Just a light push in to get it home and certainly not a shove or twist on the cams.
I just remind myself how far out it was to begin with and that it still ran alright. Remember in these pictures I'm using the inaccurate Laser tool with the crank locked and the cambelt on! I simply could not get the Laser tool in at all.
I'm nervous about the first start but also really interested in what the idle is going to be like for smoothness.
Still got the top mount to go on, coolant refill, oil change and somewhere I have a new crank sensor + harness to go on. Crank sensor may wait until I've got it all back together and on the ground though.
Progress to first startup has taken a step backwards.
Made the mistake of trying to fix the bolt it's leaking out of by tightening it up further. Of course that didn't fix it, especially as they were all torqued up correctly.
All its done is made them round off when I go to undo them. 😭
Aux Belt is back off. Alternator out. Now just the task of trying to get these bolts undone so I can get the water pump back out again to redo with a new gasket.
Made the mistake of trying to fix the bolt it's leaking out of by tightening it up further. Of course that didn't fix it, especially as they were all torqued up correctly.
All its done is made them round off when I go to undo them. 😭
Aux Belt is back off. Alternator out. Now just the task of trying to get these bolts undone so I can get the water pump back out again to redo with a new gasket.
Robbie Corbett
ClioSport Club Member
