Abit angry/very annoyed.

Stig182 · Apr 14, 2012

I bought my Clio 172 not so long ago maybe around 2 months tops of a member of this forum.

Well, to cut a long story short i heard a ticking sound coming from the centre of the engine, heard a few like it and defo sounded like injector tick. I know a far bit about engines and tbh in experience if its not broke dont fix it as it usually ends up in more problems.

Well, driving along today and BAMMMM!!!! car looses alot of power and is popping/backfiring from the engine!!

I cut it out, have a ponder at the roadside and decide to call the AA. 45 minutes later and me and the AA guy start stripping it down.

Turns out it's popped a spark plug out and bust all the threads!!!

We decided whilst in there to check the others, and sure as hell 3 of the 4 were finger tight!!!!!!!!!!!!

Annoyed more than anything. Off to Machine Mart tomorrow to purchase said, http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/armstrong-eco-kit-spark-plug-thread-repair-kit-2 kit, as my inserts arent big enough what i currently have and cant be bothered to wait tbh!

Should be up and running tommorrow again, i just wish people would take more care.

Am i right in also thinking this would diminish BHP results on a dynograph? (3 plugs loose!)

Only thing good out of this is, i will have no more tick tick tick sounds!!! Engine other than this purrs like a little kitten. The best CS engine i have heard to date.

Also i defo know it was the previous owner that changed them as he told me and i have the receipts!!

:nono:

Aydon182 · Apr 14, 2012

Who was the previous owner?

Curiousity.

Tony Hunter · Apr 14, 2012

And your point is ?

marinemackay2003 · Apr 14, 2012

Are you taking the head off to do it ?

IceBerg182 · Apr 14, 2012

You sure its bust the threads?

If 3 were loose its because they were not done up tight enough to seat the crush washers.

That kit from Machine Mart wont work, get someone out from an engineering firm who knows what they are doing.

marinemackay2003 · Apr 14, 2012

Need a timesert kit really, helicoils are strong, but not really enough for plugs IMO

Make sure to get all the swarf out of the bores/pistons too

@Spoonie · Apr 14, 2012

I know a far bit about engines and tbh in experience if its not broke dont fix it as it usually ends up in more problems

Except in this case when it was clearly broke.

MonkeyKnifeFight · Apr 15, 2012

My 182 did this and it cost just over a 100 quid to get it back on the road helicoil included screw doing it yourself!!

Owen92 · Apr 15, 2012

Spoonie said:
Except in this case when it was clearly broke.

If you know a lot about engines like you say you do. Surely it would of made sense for you to try and diagnose the fault before it was completely broke? I don't see why you'd want to just leave it

Fred@BTM · Apr 15, 2012

spark plugs should always be torqued IMO

Russ_16v · Apr 15, 2012

As Fred says - you make it sound like the previous owner deliberately left them loose, i expect they simply didn't know how tight they should have been and did't do them tight enough and they have worked themselfs loose.

Stig182 · Apr 15, 2012

Car is all fixed again now! Just helicoiled it, with the kit i mentioned above, very painstaking work not for the faint hearted IMO! plenty of ways to EASY make things ALOT worse.

Luck was definatly on my side today above anything else. First time i sent the tap far too in and ending up screwing all the way in the cylinder, doesn't seem too bad but its a double ended tap and when i went to screw it back out it went tight!!!

My heart sank. I could have cried, but i thought got nothing to lose now so i carried on and after 3 turns it somehow found the thread what i had just tapped out and came out perfectly!

Second time, the tang broke off just as the helicoil was sat in position (luckily!!!) and because i had greased the insertion tool the tang stuck to this! result.

Not one bit of metal went into the cylinder. Popped the new plug in and torqued down correctly! Built her back up and what a lovely sound! Purrfect!

Stig182 · Apr 15, 2012

Russ_16v said:
As Fred says - you make it sound like the previous owner deliberately left them loose, i expect they simply didn't know how tight they should have been and did't do them tight enough and they have worked themselfs loose.

What!!!? where on earth did you read this? It's the fact they werent tightened up correctly, plugs dont JUST come loose when tightened down properly, thats what a crush washer is for. And if they simply didnt know how tight a plug should be, someone else should be doing it.

Stig182 · Apr 15, 2012

IceBerg182 said:
You sure its bust the threads?

If 3 were loose its because they were not done up tight enough to seat the crush washers.

That kit from Machine Mart wont work, get someone out from an engineering firm who knows what they are doing.

Yes, it defo bust the thread as the spark plug had no threads left on it and nor did the cyclinder.

That kit from Machine Mart did work fine, what gave you this impression? Albeit i had to modify the insertion tool myself and make an extension for it but this took around 15minutes with the correct tooling.

Tony Hunter · Apr 15, 2012

Glad you got it done ok.

jesus · Apr 15, 2012

Glad to hear it's been sorted, times like that you fear the worst! :dapprove:

IceBerg182 · Apr 15, 2012

Stig182 said:
Yes, it defo bust the thread as the spark plug had no threads left on it and nor did the cyclinder.

That kit from Machine Mart did work fine, what gave you this impression? Albeit i had to modify the insertion tool myself and make an extension for it but this took around 15minutes with the correct tooling.

I advised against the Machine Mart kit purely down to cost and durability. The heli-coils have a habit or failing, either due to vibration or just when you come to your next plug change. £50 quid now might turn into another £50 in a couple of weeks time.

I have used a company local to me in the past who will come out and put in a carbon steel Time-Sert and re-cut the seat for the crush washer. They are a solid bushing that is completely locked into place. They are resistant to vibration and will allow the plugs to be replaced with no problems. There are no tabs or prongs to snap off. They used to charge about £60 a year or so ago.

That said, i'm sure you have a great relief in getting your car running again.

Stig182 · Apr 15, 2012

thanks guys, i just want to make a major point here about the 'tang', i was pondering snapping it off and just using my magnetic pickup tool to reclaim it, but please for the love of god dont try this as stainless steel isn't magnetic, not at this degree.

A good method of doing it is to get abit of very fine string or fishing wire and superglue it to the tang before you wind the helicoil down. So retrieval will be very easy indeed!!!

Danith · Apr 15, 2012

Mine makes a ticking noise but just thought it was standard old Renault! Nothing like a tappetty old ford though. I've had the plugs changed too, you're making me paranoid!

Stig182 · Apr 15, 2012

Danith said:
Mine makes a ticking noise but just thought it was standard old Renault! Nothing like a tappetty old ford though. I've had the plugs changed too, you're making me paranoid!

try them out dude! see if their tight! nothing to lose, 5 mins to take manifold off!

Danith · Apr 15, 2012

You mean see if they're finger tight? I saw them being fitted (about 4 times actually trying to diagnose a misfire!). I don't think they were 'torqued', a standard spark plug spanner elongated socket style thingy (I'm not a mechanic) was used. Should I get it checked out?

Ol’ Tarby · Apr 15, 2012

Defo get them torqued up correctly to be on the safe side

Danith · Apr 15, 2012

james24785 said:
Defo get them torqued up correctly to be on the safe side

Thanks for the heads up then, will do.

Shifty. · Apr 15, 2012

Ditto, my engines quite tappy, just presumed it was the Renault tap but now I'm definately going to check mine out, what should they be torqued to? Cheers for the heads up on this.

Sam@NP · Apr 15, 2012

Shifty. · Apr 15, 2012

Cheers Sam, there's a job for after work tomorrow then.

Danith · Apr 15, 2012

I'm a complete mechanical mong, no idea how you 'torque' your bolts rather than just tighten with normal tools. Guess there's a special tool to get the right setting?
How much would a garage charge just to do this (roughly). Anyone around Manc/Liverpool/Preston way able to do this for me for some beer tokens?!

Just as a quick 'lol', I went on youtube to see what the crack is with 'torqueing' and found this lovely tutorial video for a motorbike head and check out the BOSS TUNE!! Really makes you want to digest it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g040qsZT3eo

Stig182 · Apr 15, 2012

Shifty. said:
Ditto, my engines quite tappy, just presumed it was the Renault tap but now I'm definately going to check mine out, what should they be torqued to? Cheers for the heads up on this.

That is what i assumed as my 182 was very similar.

Heez · Apr 15, 2012

Torque wrench is what you need to 'torque up'

Sam@NP · Apr 15, 2012

Torque wrench, set to desired torque then gently tighten until it clicks/vibrates.

Sam@NP · Apr 15, 2012

Danith said:
I'm a complete mechanical mong, no idea how you 'torque' your bolts rather than just tighten with normal tools. Guess there's a special tool to get the right setting?
How much would a garage charge just to do this (roughly). Anyone around Manc/Liverpool/Preston way able to do this for me for some beer tokens?!

Just as a quick 'lol', I went on youtube to see what the crack is with 'torqueing' and found this lovely tutorial video for a motorbike head and check out the BOSS TUNE!! Really makes you want to digest it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g040qsZT3eo

TUNE!

Danith · Apr 15, 2012

heez said:
Torque wrench is what you need to 'torque up'

I've heard of this mysterious tool but am yet to see one in the wild. My work tools are computers, pens and calculators. Cheers bud. Might take it down to my local backstreet garage for a quick tinker.

Danith · Apr 15, 2012

Sam@BTM said:
TUNE!

YES!! I was expecting some woman to be draped over the bike covered in oil while some kind gentleman strolls in armed with his toolbelt and gives her a good service.

Shifty. · Apr 15, 2012

Perhaps Renault don't have tappy engines, just loose plugs!

TimR26 · Apr 15, 2012

Sam@BTM said:
29nm

Is that the same for Meganes as well?

jenic · Apr 15, 2012

Hmmm, did my last ones "just tight and a bit" but want to do the T right.

This seems cheap enough, and a similar style to my big torque wrench which has been fine - http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/p...versible-torque-wre?da=1&TC=SRC-torque wrench

Russ_16v · Apr 15, 2012

Stig182 said:
What!!!? where on earth did you read this? It's the fact they werent tightened up correctly, plugs dont JUST come loose when tightened down properly, thats what a crush washer is for. And if they simply didnt know how tight a plug should be, someone else should be doing it.

Your original post came across that you were putting blame on the previous owner for not doing them up tight enough - If I got the wrong end of the stick there I apologise

big-al182 · Apr 15, 2012

Danith said:
Mine makes a ticking noise but just thought it was standard old Renault! Nothing like a tappetty old ford though. I've had the plugs changed too, you're making me paranoid!

same thing...im gonna check them in the morn....could this also be the reason mine is hitting the rev limiter early (at between 6800-6900)...and would this fault cause the engine managment light to come on?

jenic · Apr 15, 2012

Hitting the limiter early could be the cold limiter, takes a while for it to warm up enough for it to rev to the normal limiter (7.2k iirc)

big-al182 · Apr 15, 2012

even after a good hour or so driving it still wont rev to 7000? i just thought it might be the plugs being loose :rasp: as its also quite tappy?

Abit angry/very annoyed.

South Central- West Berks

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