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ACS roll centre kit ??

B

ben.s.jamin

Car  clio
Evening all. I'm just looking at a second hand ACS roll RC correction kit.
I've done a bit of reading and it seems early ones were prone to failure? But a newer version wasn't?

Question is.. am I correct in thinking this and is there a way to differentiate between the two??
Thanks.
 
Yeah I won't unless someone can say, they were definitely fixed and there's an easy way to tell which it is.
I was looking at tomotek one but the website shows out of stock.
I'll phone them tomorrow and see what the craic is..
 
ben.s.jamin said:
Yeah I won't unless someone can say, they were definitely fixed and there's an easy way to tell which it is.
I was looking at tomotek one but the website shows out of stock.
I'll phone them tomorrow and see what the craic is..
Click to expand...
If you’re buying new, I’d get the Northloop cup setup from Alan at Bridgecraft Motorsport. They’re the only RCK kit that machine the hubs to make the ball joint extenders fit properly.
 
frayz said:
If you’re buying new, I’d get the Northloop cup setup from Alan at Bridgecraft Motorsport. They’re the only RCK kit that machine the hubs to make the ball joint extenders fit properly.
Click to expand...
how does this set compare to the pms and Pro-am kit?
 
sennaalbronda said:
how does this set compare to the pms and Pro-am kit?
Click to expand...
Not sure about the PMS, but the Pro-Am kit is also a plug and play item that has seen some failures.
Pro-Am then did improve the material and requested they be fitted in the setting that provides the least amount of stress on the ball joint extenders. Ive not seen/heard of another failure of the Pro-Am kit since, however that being said, i don't think many circuits have been open for people to use either.

The issue with the plug and play kits is the ball joint extenders use the same mechanical fit/features as the OEM ball joints. This relies on the strength of the knuckle as designed for the OE ball joints and load. The increased leverage provided by the aftermarket extenders puts significant stress on these areas and over time the OEM knuckles begin to oval and eventually allow hardware failure.

The Noothloop/Bridgecraft setup is the only setup that i know of that not only machines the bottoms of the hubs perfectly flay, but then threads the bottom knuckle so the ball joint extender is not only threaded in, but then machined for a relief once fitted and further clamped tight by the pinch bolt. This is probably the strongest non-welded connection possible and has no way for either component to move. I have seen images of rally accidents where the corners of the cars have been ripped off and the RCK still not fail.

Failure at this point would be absolute catastrophic, and you need 110% confidence in the components. For me, the NLC/BCM was the only choice.

Just my opinion. :)
 
I have NLC on mine. They have been on for nearly 2 years. My car is purely a track car and has been punished severely. Ive hit saugage curbs that hard at times that my car has been up on 2 wheels. Probs done 3000 track miles and after a good clean they come up as good as new..

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk
 
For anyone else reading this, i toshed this together on paint (fortunately my engineering skills exceed my PC skills) to show what makes a NLC/BCM hubs different.
This isn't a dig at the plug & play kits out there, some of them are beautifully finished with very high quality materials and components. They provide a very easy to fit solution. This purely illustrates the difference between the two.

roll centre hubs edited.jpg
 
JamesBryan said:
Another 'plug and play' kit failure yesterday on a lads car at Oulton [emoji17]

View attachment 1543731
Click to expand...

I was messaging him this morning on Instagram , could have been a lot worse than what it actually was .
Shame it’s happened , and I can only advise getting a set of the NLC version.
I have a set of those and have not had an issue at all , only general maintenance on replacing the rose joints themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
barnesautos said:
I was messaging him this morning on Instagram , could have been a lot worse than what it actually was .
Shame it’s happened , and I can only advise getting a set of the NLC version.
I have a set of those and have not had an issue at all , only general maintenance on replacing the rose joints themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yeah potentially very dangerous.
 
JamesBryan said:
Another 'plug and play' kit failure yesterday on a lads car at Oulton 😔

View attachment 1543731
Click to expand...

So this is my car...

Firstly in ProAm's defence the part that broke was a known fault and sometime ago I was sent a replacement part FOC and was communicated with advising to change. This morning I then received an unprompted phone call from them to discuss etc, which in my opinion says a lot about a company/individuals (in a good way).

I DIDN'T CHANGE THE PART as the car had done limited mileage and like a lot of people time was an issue. It just one of those things IMO and I don't see how they can be held accountable when they had already issues a potential fix prior to the issue causing me a problem.

In short I'll be taking it back to OEM for a period, especially as I want the car ready for DN in late August/early September.

The car definitely turned in better with the kit so I will be keen to explore either fitting the amended kit or other options, a friend is suggesting lowering the whole subframe...

Onwards and upwards.
 
You can’t lower the whole subframe. That will have the opposite effect.

You couldn’t realistically raise it either.

Personally. I just run near standard ride height with good coilovers, stiff springs and the right damping. I don’t have to correct the roll centre and I know my wheels will stay on the car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
David Stuart said:
You can’t lower the whole subframe. That will have the opposite effect.

You couldn’t realistically raise it either.

Personally. I just run near standard ride height with good coilovers, stiff springs and the right damping. I don’t have to correct the roll centre and I know my wheels will stay on the car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Sorry I didn't mean lower the subframe, he was discussing modifying the subframe...

What did the 182 Cup Racers do?
 
a17vts said:
So this is my car...

Firstly in ProAm's defence the part that broke was a known fault and sometime ago I was sent a replacement part FOC and was communicated with advising to change. This morning I then received an unprompted phone call from them to discuss etc, which in my opinion says a lot about a company/individuals (in a good way).

I DIDN'T CHANGE THE PART as the car had done limited mileage and like a lot of people time was an issue. It just one of those things IMO and I don't see how they can be held accountable when they had already issues a potential fix prior to the issue causing me a problem.

In short I'll be taking it back to OEM for a period, especially as I want the car ready for DN in late August/early September.

The car definitely turned in better with the kit so I will be keen to explore either fitting the amended kit or other options, a friend is suggesting lowering the whole subframe...

Onwards and upwards.
Click to expand...

Youd need to do something like this for an oem setup, obviously just drilling a hole isnt sufficient and would need extra strengthening.

P1010146.jpeg
 
a17vts said:
So this is my car...

Firstly in ProAm's defence the part that broke was a known fault and sometime ago I was sent a replacement part FOC and was communicated with advising to change. This morning I then received an unprompted phone call from them to discuss etc, which in my opinion says a lot about a company/individuals (in a good way).

I DIDN'T CHANGE THE PART as the car had done limited mileage and like a lot of people time was an issue. It just one of those things IMO and I don't see how they can be held accountable when they had already issues a potential fix prior to the issue causing me a problem.

In short I'll be taking it back to OEM for a period, especially as I want the car ready for DN in late August/early September.

The car definitely turned in better with the kit so I will be keen to explore either fitting the amended kit or other options, a friend is suggesting lowering the whole subframe...

Onwards and upwards.
Click to expand...

I did wonder if it was the original designed part that had failed.
 
I’m running Pro-am kit. Did 2 trackdays on original parts without issue. Got sent the upgraded parts, fitted them and did another Trackday without issue. I’ve now got the latest upgrade v3 which I’m fitting before next Trackday.

Can’t fault the aftersales service from Scott who kept me in the loop of what was happening from day one.

Stay off those kerbs fellas 😂

CC577748-8F1A-4A35-A779-5CAA3C7FBE50.jpeg
 
JamesBryan said:
What's different on v3?
Click to expand...
As part of our general development we’ve been continually looking at things we can improve on the kits.. we’ve taken everything we learnt from the first two iterations and have revised the concept to a 2 piece design, integrating a locking nut with the spacer.. This allows the spacer to be preloaded again the hub lower surface, taking up any tolerance differences between customer hubs.. Also with the two piece design the main pin has a uniform section with no large changes in diameter, thus improving the loading capacity.. We have been running this V3 all season to get some miles on it and it’s pretty solid.. Bench tests have shown a good uplift too.

(Had no issues with v2 pins since people swapped I might add, but things can always be developed and made better 👍🏻)
 
Tomotek said:
As part of our general development we’ve been continually looking at things we can improve on the kits.. we’ve taken everything we learnt from the first two iterations and have revised the concept to a 2 piece design, integrating a locking nut with the spacer.. This allows the spacer to be preloaded again the hub lower surface, taking up any tolerance differences between customer hubs.. Also with the two piece design the main pin has a uniform section with no large changes in diameter, thus improving the loading capacity.. We have been running this V3 all season to get some miles on it and it’s pretty solid.. Bench tests have shown a good uplift too.

(Had no issues with v2 pins since people swapped I might add, but things can always be developed and made better [emoji1303])
Click to expand...

What are the dates on V1 and V2 designs?

I purchased a kit in November 2020. Assuming these would be V2 and no need to upgrade the pins to the new design?

Ta
 
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