Adeys F4RT Twingo GT

[Twingo 1??]

Good work as usual! I take it all this will give it the same track as a 133?

 

[Adey.]

Good work as usual! I take it all this will give it the same track as a 133?

Cheers yep on the rear its now as wide as a 133, plus or minus abit depending on the wheels and offset. I need to get a few more bits for the front end stuff, hopefully it shouldn't take too long then the front will be too. All being well, I may have to mess with driveshafts again though...

 

[Twingo 1??]

Cheers yep on the rear its now as wide as a 133, plus or minus abit depending on the wheels and offset. I need to get a few more bits for the front end stuff, hopefully it shouldn't take too long then the front will be too. All being well, I may have to mess with driveshafts again though...

Ah cool. If you don't end up using the 133 shafts I will take them off your hands. If you need any measurements give me a shout as mine is just sat here under its blanket lol.

 

[Adey.]

Arb arrived and on 👌🏻

 

[Adey.]

So the wheels at the back are a touch too wide, they kiss the bumper on compression so ideally I need to run a different offset wheel. I could go for machining of the hubs but I think I will also have issues at the front when I get around to that. Different offset wheels would be a better option, I have someone checking out some facelift rs133 non cup alloys next week which look like they will give 12mm of extra clearance, coming in at 16 x 7j et55 vs my current 15 x 7j et43

On to the front setup. My initial plan was to run the rs133 wishbones and arb with the GT Hubs but due to the ball joint design I have to run the RS133 hubs. I didn't have the brakes with this setup so needed to sort some. Turns out Renault being Renault fitted some hefty calliper from the Laguna. Available without the RS tax that some parts have. Luckily someone close by was breaking one so both front brake callipers were had for not much outlay after checking they were the correct ones. I've given them a quick clean and lick with some left over titanium silver I had in a can. I'm awaiting a ball joint and tool to replace one and once that's here I can look at fitting the whole RS front end. It should end up with the steering rack (need to check part numbers to see if its different), wishbones, arb, hubs and brakes. I will need to look at adding a drop link bracket to the coilovers still but that's shouldn't be too hard.

 

[Twingo 1??]

Regarding the suspension. The front struts look similar to clio 197/200 I think from memory it would be interesting to compare them to 133 struts. I have some 200 rear coilovers to try on mine at some point. Pad choice for the laguna calipers is OK as well. 133 arb links are expensive so keep looking out for a cheeper alternative as there will be. From memory I think it cross references to a dacia part number.

 

[Adey.]

I did read that there a Volvo arb link which is the same fitment and around £12. Clio 172/182 rear coilovers would be a direct fit on yours @Twingo 1?? I've not looked at the 200 stuff. I plan to add a clamp on arb bracket or just weld one to the body so I can keep the coilovers i have rather than swap out again. I've got no real issues with the ones I have. The Laguna and rs133 calliper part number is the same so all the same options regarding the pads, I'm happy with the yellowstuff ones I've been trying recently on the road but that said I've covered less than 80 miles on them. They are available for these though. Ill have a look around at what's available once its all fitted up and working.

 

[Twingo 1??]

Oh if you wouldn't mind sending me the Volvo part number if you have it! I have some carbone Lorraine pads to try as I got them realy cheap. It would be good to find some front struts that fit as there is nothing half decent competition wise for the 133 unless you have 5k to spend.

 

[Adey.]

I've ran CL pads on a Clio and they used to pull your face off backwards, great pad. At night they threw off sparks and they made my silver paintwork orange lol. If I find a part number I will post it up here

 

[DaveL485]

Lacking in pictures but a small update. First off the hub was whipped off so a new bearing could be pressed in. The bearing was fine the issue I had was id damaged the reluctor ring when I had the shaft in and out a few times during the build. Its part of the bearing itself unlike the 172 which has an external ring on the driveshaft. So new one of those pressed in as a favour at the garage when taking the family wagon in for its MOT. Whilst it was all apart I slapped in some new pads. I run Peugeot callipers on my car and pad choice is limited (well not as supported as the 172) and pricey in some cases. So Ive gone with the review/advice of @DaveL485 and tried out some Yellowstuff pads (part number DP41375R) Years ago I wouldn't of touched these with someone else's stick but so say they have changed? that and unlike the £220+ quotes I was getting they came in at a shave under £90 for the set. We will see how they fair. Anyway all fitted up, a drive down the street saw the ABS light go out, just need to put some bedding in miles on the car

Cheers for reading

View attachment 1563352View attachment 1563353View attachment 1563350View attachment 1563351View attachment 1563349View attachment 1563348

They're passable when cold, but really get on song when hot & pushing hard. I could really feel them tighten up and start to bite as the heat came in on track.

 

[Adey.]

Just as a reference post, brake pad size by area.

Twingo GT 100x65mm 6500mm²,
Clio 172 128x55.4mm 7091.2²,
Peugeot 206gti 180/hdi 137x57mm 7809mm² ,
RS133/Laguna 156x67mm 10,452mm²

 

[Adey.]

So I've made a start on the rest of the swap even though I haven't got all the bits needed yet. Its all going well though so far I think..... Looking at it if you fit this engine with a jr5 box into an RS133 you would have no need to make a driveshaft like I did. Everything so far has been a like for like bolt on replacement. The wishbones look to be around 30/35mm wider and the shafts measure the same increase vs my old ones. I still need to whip off and swap the arb and steering rack. I had a few people send videos of the amount of lock to lock they have and though there isn't much in it the RS133 looks to have a slightly quicker rack. The only "pmt mod" I've done so far was to sleeve/bush the shock bolt holes in the hub. The GT runs m12 bolts but the hub is designed for m14. For now I've made some bushings to take up the slack so I can continue to use my current coilovers but if I were to replace them id now order some RS133 specific items. Here's some pics and thanks for reading

As a side note, why aren't people using these parts to wide track their 172/182 track toys? 40ish mm wider at every corner and an epas conversion that I cant see being to hard to fit.

 

[Adey.]

133 arb links are expensive so keep looking out for a cheeper alternative as there will be. From memory I think it cross references to a dacia part number.

found this link on the facebook group, might be of use to you, ive ordered a pair to try https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006DHT1BI/?tag=cliospnet01-21

 

[Twingo 1??]

Ah cheers. Do you have some to compare them to?

 

[Adey.]

Ah cheers. Do you have some to compare them to?

I have one to check it against when they arrive

 

[Twingo 1??]

I have one to check it against when they arrive

Ah sweet! Let me know what the verdict is.

 

[Krarl]

The main issue is the ABS

I still need to figure out how to use the Clio ABS on 133 rear brakes. Might have to get some rear discs machined up unless the Scenic ones with teeth fit

 

[Adey.]

The main issue is the ABS

I still need to figure out how to use the Clio ABS on 133 rear brakes. Might have to get some rear discs machined up unless the Scenic ones with teeth fit

In my head the track day clios all had the abs ripped out. I'm sure I read on here somewhere about using megane scenic rear disks on a 172 for a bigger setup and it retained the abs.

 

[Krarl]

In my head the track day clios all had the abs ripped out. I'm sure I read on here somewhere about using megane scenic rear disks on a 172 for a bigger setup and it retained the abs.

Aye if you have a cup or no ABS then it's a piece of absolute piss to use the Twingo setup, you just need to open up 1 of the holes slightly and everything bolts up

 

[Krarl]

These are the ones I may end up using.

I have a full rear setup from a 133 and a full rear setup from a MK3 Clio tCe 100I. may just have to purchase discs once I have things mocked up

 

[Adey.]

good stuff, i love parts bin raiding for upgrades.

I've seen that the 300mm scenic front brakes might go on mine easy enough, just a set of discs and different carriers from what I've read.

 

[Krarl]

good stuff, i love parts bin raiding for upgrades.

I've seen that the 300mm scenic front brakes might go on mine easy enough, just a set of discs and different carriers from what I've read.

Yeah I think calipers are the same but the carriers are beefier

What mm are the MK3 Laguna?

 

[Adey.]

not sure, 5 stud though on them i think

 

[Krarl]

Yeah 5x114.3 but the calipers might be the same, not sure about the carriers😅

 

[Djw John]

I think mine are 320mm but you also get 295 for the slower ones.

 

[Krarl]

This is a 312mm disc vs a 15" wheel🤣🤣

 

[Ol’ Tarby]

MK3 Clio tCe

Would you like the engine to match?

 

[Krarl]

Would you like the engine to match?

Im good ta🤣🤣

 

[Adey.]

Would you like the engine to match?

still got that massive paper weight?...

 

[Ol’ Tarby]

still got that massive paper weight?...

Yes 😂

 

[Twingo 1??]

This is a 312mm disc vs a 15" wheel🤣🤣

View attachment 1564851

From personal experience the biggest disc you can do under 15" wheels is 300mm. Admittedly it's not a renault but you get the idea of space!

 

[Krarl]

From personal experience the biggest disc you can do under 15" wheels is 300mm. Admittedly it's not a renault but you get the idea of space!
View attachment 1564863

Aye I know mate

Meg3 calipers are pretty big too😅

 

[Twingo 1??]

Aye I know mate

Meg3 calipers are pretty big too😅

View attachment 1564864

Haha there bigger than the Alcons!

 

[alexandre.]

So I've made a start on the rest of the swap even though I haven't got all the bits needed yet. Its all going well though so far I think..... Looking at it if you fit this engine with a jr5 box into an RS133 you would have no need to make a driveshaft like I did. Everything so far has been a like for like bolt on replacement. The wishbones look to be around 30/35mm wider and the shafts measure the same increase vs my old ones. I still need to whip off and swap the arb and steering rack. I had a few people send videos of the amount of lock to lock they have and though there isn't much in it the RS133 looks to have a slightly quicker rack. The only "pmt mod" I've done so far was to sleeve/bush the shock bolt holes in the hub. The GT runs m12 bolts but the hub is designed for m14. For now I've made some bushings to take up the slack so I can continue to use my current coilovers but if I were to replace them id now order some RS133 specific items. Here's some pics and thanks for reading

As a side note, why aren't people using these parts to wide track their 172/182 track toys? 40ish mm wider at every corner and an epas conversion that I cant see being to hard to fit.

View attachment 1564781

RS133 wishbone are 26.08mm wide but i think it will reduce your caster because the balljoint is 1.1mm backward

Other option should be kangoo 4x4 wishbone, 0.05mm wide and balljoint 1.34mm foward

 

[alexandre.]

But i think the caster diference is irrelevant, because if you compare the less caster 172 wishbone with the more caster the diference is 13,71mm

 

[Adey.]

Ah sweet! Let me know what the verdict is.

Nigh on identical 👍🏻

 

[Adey.]

So where are we up too, everything is on and fitted. I still have a few jobs to wrap up like filling the gearbox and test driving the car but so far it all looks as if it will work. I accidentally ended up with a big brake upgrade in the process. The RS133 shares the brake callipers with the Laguna, it doesn't share the carriers which I also bought. The RS133 has 280mm discs the same as the 172 and the Laguna has a few options (280,300 & 305 I think) I did a little digging and found an old post regarding it on cliosport.net saying you can use the Scenic 300mm discs with this setup. So that's what I did

Whilst under the car I fitted everything else I had that was RS133 specific. The arb which is always a dick to do job. I slapped in the steering rack after being sent some videos of the throw on the wheel (GT vs RS133) though after fitting it I cant tell the difference tbh. I could of probably gotten away with just fitting the arms off it to the current steering rack. One of the ball joints was knackered on the Aluminium arms to so I ordered a new one and the tool to fit it...... What a dick of a job that was! ended up down a mates garage and even after heat and welding we had to drill and cut the old one to get it out! wont be doing that again in a hurry.

I wanted to keep using my current coilovers for now, 1, I like them for road use and 2, it was cheaper to keep them rather than replace them with RS specific items. The hub mounting on them has a slotted lower hole so seems to fit both the 58mm spacing of the GT hub and the 60mm of the RS, though the slots are made for 12mm bolts. The RS133 has 14mm. As I am using RS hubs I sleeved them down to 12mm, something that used to be done regularly when hub swapping old Nissan 200sx's. Next thing I had to do was add a tap for the drop link to the coilover body. No biggy, just bent and curved some spare metal and welded it to the body slowly as to not put too much heat into them.

Next issue after fitting it all was the wheels, I tried fitting the OZ F1s up to the front and they didn't clear the brakes (this was when I originally realised id fudged up the brakes a little) I was already on the hunt for some different offset wheels but @jezer101 leant me his old 16x7 et45 Team Dynamics 1.2s they went on and cleared everything nicely. After a little pestering he agreed to sell them to me so that's now sorted. I need some tires all round and a bit of a tidy up but the car now rolls.

I've also received a replica Cup spoiler, I think its really changes the shape of the car, the whole thing looks pretty aggressive when mixed with the bigger wheels. I gave it a quick lash with some satin black to see how it looked but will give it a better prep and paint over the next week before final fitting. Once I have spanner checked everything ill try and get a little test drive video together.

So in conclusion I've now created a completely Frankenstein/Heinz 57 Twingo GT. GT Shell, RS133 suspension components, Laguna brakes, Modus gearbox and a Megane r26/Laguna GT205 engine. The rear beam is original (matches the 172) and so is the paint and interior panels though it also has RS133 seats.... Thanks for reading

 

[Twingo 1??]

Excellent! I have 2 of the ball joints to change on a spare pair of arms I have so not looking forward to that now lol. Love the old Peugeot, Talbot sport sign in the garage. I used to rally an Avenger so have a soft spot for old pts stuff. Regarding wheels I always found td wheels to have good brake clearance also speedline.

 

[Adey.]

Excellent! I have 2 of the ball joints to change on a spare pair of arms I have so not looking forward to that now lol. Love the old Peugeot, Talbot sport sign in the garage. I used to rally an Avenger so have a soft spot for old pts stuff. Regarding wheels I always found td wheels to have good brake clearance also speedline.

My mate who runs the place is into his pugs, has a 205 in the garage on itbs and omex with plenty of period upgrades (309 sus or something?) and the bench hes swinging off in the pic is under a 309

We ended up drilling through the centre of the ball joint then running a saw to the edge of it to release it from the arm, once the tension was gone it unwound fine but took an hour plus of faffing about to get to that point, good luck

 

[Krarl]

Said this on FB but this is deffo better than a GR Yaris

Looking forward to CSF22 for a passenger lap or 2😉😉🤣