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NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Technically it does actually mate, but it is only a negligible amount and hardly noticeable.
Twingo Gordini RS133
if your rear beam was horizontal and there was 1deg negative camber, raising the ride height a massive amount so the beam was hanging vertically down, that camber would now equate to 1deg toe out. Unrealistic example I know, but extremes are often easier to visualise.
As the beam is near horizontal for most sensible ride heights, the change in camber/toe is less extreme and probably not an issue.
By the same token, drastically raising or lowering the rear end will have an effect on the front castor/camber/toe.
does it really? You wouldn't think it would affect it lol
To the same note that going down a hill will affect your camber/caster/toe if you measure from the horizontal. Basically its not worth noting unless your doing a 3" chassis/suspension lift and fitting 20" wheels to the rear.
Not strictly true , it has an effect and its your judgement as to whether or not its detrimental enough to worry about
On a road car negligable on a track car , then i would always check and regeo
On a FWD Clio with McPherson struts and a trailing beam rear suspension it will have little to no affect, I would say the opposite to you.
It will have less an affect on a track car due to the angle the components sit at (front and back as the wishbone sits around about level and the beam also sits around level on a lowered car) and the chance that it will be a smaller adjustments being done than going from standard ride height to 'lows'
Im not saying there is no changes but it certainly won't warrant redoing the tracking or shimming the rear beam for a 10-15mm adjustment. On a Caterfield with unequal double wishbone suspension I might agree with you.
Certianly the case on a race car that you would care about even small changes
Mind you, if you have Geo'd it perfectly in the first place to suit your requirements you will need to do so again after a 25mm drop anyway, as its likely to involve a change in spring rate and hence different roll resistance etc.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
More like you'd have to recheck it because the rear axle has bent because it saw a bump in the road and s**t itself! Flol!Certianly the case on a race car that you would care about even small changes
Mind you, if you have Geo'd it perfectly in the first place to suit your requirements you will need to do so again after a 25mm drop anyway, as its likely to involve a change in spring rate and hence different roll resistance etc.
Indeed, like I said, the tiny tiny little tow change effect of "bump steer" on the rear from lowering is the least of your worries on the rear of these cars, they are all as bent as the julian clarey fan club.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Flol!
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Er, so, were you asking if you need to reset the tracking on the front end if you adjust the ride height on the rear? If that's what you were asking then the answer is no mate! Lol! From your reply I suspect this may well be the case.
Just FYI for anyone who cares I think Morgan's got his words mixed up - whilst I definitely agree it's not worth worrying about on a Clio the above example of McPherson vs SLA Double Wishbone is the other way round (double wishbone suspension having massively better dynamic camber control than McPherson struts)
However I completely agree that the above is merely academic and that there's hundreds of much more fundamental things to worry about before a tiny bit of toe change in bump on the rear.
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SLA = Short Long Arm aka unequal length Provides even better camber compensation than equal length double wishbones and so is even less fussy to bump/droop/roll/ride height. Hence the principle in one guise or another can be found on an awful lot of cars from F1 to a 20 year old 3 series. (I'm not for one moment implying ride height isn't very important for other reasons though!).
I'm secretly waiting for you/Northloop/James to build an all-conquering Clio with a sufficiently over-engineered cage to allow double wishbone all round For now I shall drool over that Super Touring Clio...
Provides even better camber compensation than equal length double wishbones and so is even less fussy to bump/droop/roll/ride height. Hence the principle in one guise or another can be found on an awful lot of cars from F1 to a 20 year old 3 series. (I'm not for one moment implying ride height isn't very important for other reasons though!).I'm secretly waiting for you/Northloop/James to build an all-conquering Clio with a sufficiently over-engineered cage to allow double wishbone all round
For now I shall drool over that Super Touring Clio...
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NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
You'll be drooling a long time then mate if your waiting for me to do it I'm afraid fella. I'll just be carrying on doing my custom one offs as and when the mood takes me, then when I've saved up enough cash weigh the cup in at the scrapyard and invest all my money into a 997 gt3rs!I'm secretly waiting for you/Northloop/James to build an all-conquering Clio with a sufficiently over-engineered cage to allow double wishbone all round
