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VTRLOVER okie this is my expirence. A the willy is 11 years old and still is the best 2.0 vehicle that is not turbod on the road. Looks, drivability, and head turner all in one. Yes the 172/182/cup and 182 cups are all very good cars.
However the willy is just a piece of raw class. If ya want a point and go car, buy a 172/182. If ya ant something that involves you in the drive, buy a willy. The 172/182 is indeed a very quick car, but it does feel vague on the steering, but thats what ya get from tourqe steer. Maybe better tyres would sort that out. As im sure people on here will tell ya. Now this alll sounds one sided to the willy, but i have got to agree the 172/182 is excellent vehicle and without doubt if my willy was to expire i would enjoy the 182 just as much. As for speed of the vehicles hmmmm standard willy will be a tad lost against 172. But give a willy a little tweek and its a darn close thing.
Talk to 2 live and he will tell ya !! How much a willy can gain on a 172/182. He is the daddy on the willy debate.
My willy has a stage 2 conversion with all the usual bits done also a det-cat on a magnex zorst system and a chip. Power boost valve (which people still debate if they work or not) it also has big brake conversion with billet 4 pots.
So not exactly what you would call standard.
As for other cars batting around in hmmmmmmm recently have driven a 225 for around 2 weeks. And lets put it this way, I know what ill be having next, yes they dont look so good, but hell i can sacrifice looks for speed. They are indeed a piece of engineering. They have got this car soooooooo right in the engine and steering and brakes dept. Overpriced without doubt but hey whats the good of working for renault without the odd perk
[Edited by Leigh on 02 November 2004 at 10:20pm]
My Williams was standard and in 1st class condition (164bhp) - Im yet to drive a car I like as a package that I rate as highly - including 4wd cars.
If you want Scooby straight line speed its going to cost (and I dont mean standard bugeye turbos as its near the same as them standard).
As for driving - its smaller than a Scoob and hence I found far more involving and rewarding.
Only downside - which is also a plus side is its not very refined.
Martin- yikes! Thats impresive stuff mate
Leigh- I know what you mean the CUP I drove did feel a bit like it wasnt me driving it, still a cracking car tho! How much would it cost to get a Willy upto 172/182 pace and if it was possible would it still remain reliable?
007- 164bhp standard is bloody good! Am I right in saying that all Williys make more than standard power?
I think that the 4WD Impreza Turbos in the classic shape would get pissed all over when corners are concerned, the handling is truely awful as standard. Understeer to buggery and their is little in the way of turn in, so the twistier it would get the more ground it would lose. Can be fast in a straight line, but Im not a fan of them at all. Would rather have an older Evo for the same money which beats them in all departments.
VTRLover, yes, most Williams make more than standard power. Mine made 156bhp with a diesel gearbox and a HUGE flat spot... and revs to 6800 almost as standard. Think Flaming Monkey made around 170bhp+ with a decat IIRC...
[Edited by TheJesus on 03 November 2004 at 1:09pm]
hehe yes mate most williams seem to make above the 150 figure........and as for gettin one to beat 172/182s and still remain reliable......its easy mate lol.......had mine nearly 3 years and havent really had any probs keeping with and beatin 172 etc since i got it.......and it was absolutely boggo wen i got it.........the only thing that went on it was the clutch....which is wen i swapped over to meg power with cams etc etc ......now it eats 172s ......hehe......had it up to jus short of 150 then ran into traffic.......very nearly lol..so backed off......and its still as reliable now as it was std
now pumps out 139 bhp and 122 lb/ft torque @ the wheels......and th etorque hits the 122 at 4500 rpm n flat lines then till 6600..holdin th etorque nicely hehe
buy 1 u wont be disappointed.......jus make sure u look at a few 1st unless the 1st 1 u look at is mint beyond belief
dunno mate tbh......judgin how far away the spec behind u is is quite difficult lol
a little comparison with yozzas cup the other week.yozza stripped out rally sl*g beatch....me fully loaded 2 new tyres in the boot all seats spare babyseats etc.......from standstill up to about 120ish, not a lot in it, but i had to feather the throttle a bit in 4th......both 2 up as well.........172s are usually about a second behind now on the 1/4, the odd good one gets within 1/2 sec of me.......the cups are breathing down my neck tho....very respectable times......
MINI JCW
There are quite alot of people on here who think the williams can keep up with the 172 but the facts speak for themselves, here are some performance figures:
0-60 0-100
Clio Williams 7.7 20.8
Clio 172 7.1 17.9
The 172 will leave the willy for dead after 60 (both standard of course)
[Edited by gazcaddy on 04 November 2004 at 10:03pm]
the 0-60 time for the willy is a third gear job so 7.7 ant bad if you fit a hill power chip it lifts the limiter from 6.5-6.9 so you get a second gear o-60 and so reduces this time and this chip gives u a bigger top speed as well from 136ish to 146 ish not bad for a £170 mod with a club discount
mine limits at about 7.1 now............
hits around 65 ish on the clocks in 2nd gear now............evry other gear seems to be about a 10-20 mph increase.............5th...........i dunno yet lol............used to hit the limiters at indicated 142-3 ish...............had 150 n still had revs left now...........
If were talking modded (which is pointless!!) What about Roamers Clio 212?? think it might come out tops somehow.....
Standard vs Standard (as in out of the box, not standard "apart from decat, zorst and filter" as most seem to quote) the 172 is quicker in a straight line than the Williams.
what chip have u got been talking to nick hill may go for one of those was thinking of dastek uni chip as there is a dealer round here got my car rr there but very costly hp chip is cheap and cheerful and lifts limiter my willy pulls strong all way to limiter on rr report so there will be a few gains there when lifted to 6-9 nick hill said if you go above 7-1 on limiter you get valve bounce and will blow the engine in stock trim because of the long throw crank
u can add roamers 212 beast to the list of 172s..............if we can add geds 210 bhp throttle bodied williams lol...........same mods........same power
mine in std trim runs 14.8s............thats with cat and paper filter and std zorst...........not many 172s will ............
btw willy 329...........i had mine remapped by chip wizards...........the raised limiter doesnt add much power to the equation but the torque it now makes is unreal........plus u can hold it on the limiter round bends a bit more as the limiter is a lot softer........btw the engine blowin up is total bollox..........iv done 15k miles in mine since rebuild.........mostly on or very near the limiter an nowt wrong yet lol.............this engine was run in on a flat out trek across the peaks with a load of other clios.............that was b4 the re-map tho hehe
FN2 Type R +MK6 Golf
Standard vs standard its close i think but the willys take the mods better and if your on a budget the willy makes sense ,its still a cracking car.
Straight line theres not a lot in it but the 172 will pull a little standard with the 182 a bit more,im still yet to see a willy do 0-60 in 6.3 like autocar did with a 3 thousand mile 182 cup(but i dont doubt the jesus and 2live arent close if not past it),also there was a 55k 172 that did 6.3-60 so the 172 engine may loosen up over time as well..but we will have to wait and see
Regardles,if you buy a willy it will take something special to replace it when your done
ian
2live how can it be b****cks if u lift the limiter to high on any engine it will cause valve bounce and u will drop a valve im not saying yours is to high but its very close for a road car but then u could have a full blown racing engine in your motor im just talking about fast road if i keep mine a chip is my next mod that limiter always cuts in just when u dont want it to and as for that bloke saying after a ton a 172 oh i mean 166 will leave a willy for dead what planet is he on
Compared my slightly tweaked Williams to a standard 172 some time ago and there is virtually no difference in road performance. But when pushing the cornering limits of both cars, the Williams is much easier to drive close to the limit. More accurate handling, easier throttle steer and understeers less than the 172.
Mind you, this is against a standard 172; a tweaked 172 might be a different story.
Punto/Clio GTT
after readin through all of these posts i have noticed alot of this... my williams can keep up with a 172 its got chip zaust etc etc... ah my williams can beat standard 172s mines got zorst etc etc... ah my williams has these mods and can keep up with a 172.
simple fact, 172 is faster than a williams in standard form, 0-60 0-100 and top end speed too, end of..
For less than half the price though, you get a car which is quite possibly, in the top 10 list of the best cars ever made.
Looks, styling, etc etc is all down to personal preference.
The williams is an old car though and will more than likely have rust on it, if not, it will have soon. Rust cannot be removed 100% unless you change the entire panel, if you have your arches repaired, i guarantee within 6 months the paint will start to bubble.
For a williams to be able to keep up with a 172, it would need Mickey Mouse mods, nothin dramatic, better breathing possibly, chip? zorst etc tec.
With the money you save from not buying the 172 you could use to buy stuff to make the williams quite abit faster than it.
If you buy the 172 your getting a nice new car, its comfortable, its got alot more stuff to play with inside. its nice for long distance trips. You know what its like when someone has a new car.. you look flash.
IMO, i would get the Williams as theyre just raw beasts.
FM
The comparo I did with the Clio 172 at that point was with a view to change out of the Williams to something more comfortable (which the 172 was) with similar sort of thrill. But in the end, I just could not give up the feistiness of the Williams. Somehow the thrill of driving the Williams seems to outweigh almost any flaws it may have.
But, IMHO, the standard Williams and 172s are not that fast for the money anymore; thanks to the whole slew of 4wd turbocars from Japan. I think owning either Clios - you get more fun for the money and at the same time get around almost as quick as anything on the road.
Best is try to drive them both and decide.
PurpleSun I have driven a 172 CUP and was impressed although I still havnt driven a Williams
I have considered going Jap along the lines of a Pulsar GTIR and to be honest right now its a throw up between a VTS (I have seen a really nice example) a Williams and a GTIR...Have any of you guys got some video footage of a Williams in action?
Polo GTi
Williams Raw beasts...lol...Valvers, they are Raw beasts, my Willy is positive luxury compared to the 16v, nicer seats better ride, dont have to keep the f**ker on the boil all the time, but thats f**k all to do with this discussion, just though Id post some useless info.
Who gives a rats arse which is better, buy the one you like, not one someone tells you to buy. Try loads of cars, whichever is the best to you, then I reckon you buy the one YOU reckon is best.
Opinions are like arseholes everyones got one. And all of them are full of sh*t.
No videos of my own. I really dont think its a good idea to buy cars based on video footage. Both cars need to be driven to be appreciated. In any case, the only Clio Williams (I think it may be a converted valver though) footage I know is in the video gallery of http://www.8200rpm.com/http://http://www.8200rpm.comwww.8200rpm.com/.
With the comments given in this thread, I think both cars are "too close to call", especially comparing with 172 Cup. Perhaps the 172 Cup is the car for you as you quite liked the test drive.
Also, if you are working on a tight budget. Make sure you set aside some money for servicing and repair. Murphys law will make sure that you have the biggest repair bill when you can least afford it.
Polo GTi
Quote: Originally posted by TomS on 19 November 2004 Why is the willy luxury compared to the 16v?I prefer the valver interior to the wiliams!!
Cause I said so
, I was using it as an example that people will argue over anything right or wrong, I prefer my seats in my Willy to the seats in my old Valver, I wasnt asking anyone to agree with me, just telling you how I feel, the seats in my old Ph1 valver feel different to the ones in my Ph2 Willy, I dunno.You prefer the Valver to the Williams fair dos Im not arsed and neither should you, lol
Ive had experience of both, and prefer the Willys seats, all Im trying to get across is try them all, see which is the best and then go for it, seats, cars, ladys
Polo GTi
Hey dont be slammin the Sun
its not a case of which you think are better Rob, the Willy seats are betterQuote: Originally posted by FlamingMonkey on 19 November 2004
Cause I said so
You prefer the Valver to the Williams fair dos Im not arsed and neither should you, lol
Ive had experience of both, and prefer the Willys seats, all Im trying to get across is try them all, see which is the best and then go for it, seats, cars, ladys
. After driving my valver the other night and stepping straight back into the Williams, the seats are completely different. The Willy seats seem more padded and supportive (not in an emotional kind of way... before you ask! http://www.cliosport.net/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
