Advice on Clio Williams

[VTRlover]

Hello guys Im new and was looking for some advice on the Clio Williams. I have a VTR (as the name suggets!) at the moment and was looking for something with a bit more grunt!

I have test driven:

A 172 Cup- which I was very impressed with, amazing torque low down and another kick at 5K revs too. However I got told to slow down by the salesman so couldnt get a proper feel for the car. Although I dont really have the amount of money needed to buy one unless I cripple myself!

A VTS- wasnt as fast as I expected it to be, the brakes were shocking! (I have 4 pots so have got used to brakes that make the car handstand, lol). But nevertheless a lot of car for the money!

A 106GTI- same as above really

But unfortunately have yet to drive a Williams

What I want to know really from a Clio owners perspective is how the Williams would fare against a VTS and a 172, 0-60, 0-100, handling etc Also what the power delivery feels like? Is it smooth and torquey like the 172 both having a 2 litre 16v or more like a VTS with power on cam?

Thanks in advance

 

[BigBoreBri]

Theres not a great deal in it if we were to be honest...

The 172 is better over 100mph than the williams/GTI but then the williams has much better low down torque and handling, yet most would say on the right set of tyres the 172 has more grip!

The VTS/GTI are renownd for how easy it is to provoke "ease off oversteer" but having a VTR im sure you now all about that... he he

The 106 GTI/VTS requires more canning to extract its full potential but as with most french cars you get good ens and bad ens and a good will mix it well with the other two... And its also easier to tune more power for less dosh as the F4R/F7R dont appriciate filter/exhaust mods as much as the little 1.6TU engines do...

Dont know what else i can say really...

ive had a 172/williams and id choose a "decent" williams over a 172 any day!

I would also say the 172 delivery isnt very torquey after having a williams, as they are the torque daddy!! You really have to keep the 172 engine above 4k for good power delivery through the gears...

 

[VTRlover]

Thanks for the advice mate, I have to say I was expecting, having posted on a Clio forum to be told that the VTS/GTI wouldnt stand a chance against the 172 or Williams!

I wasnt expecting someone to say that theyd rather a decent Williams over a 172 and that the Williams has more torque Which would you say is quicker, I know the stats are in favour of the 172 but in the real world to 100 would a Williams be far off?

Also which of the Williams, 1, 2 or 3 would you suggest getting and the fact that the cars are all getting a bit old Im a bit concerned about the running costs and availability of spares. Are my wories justified? How much could I pick up a decent Williams for?

 

[Daz]

Nowadays, just get a 1, 2 or 3.. whichever is mintest.. they are very very thin on the ground now for mint ones!

 

[fUbAr]

Quote: Originally posted by Daz on 26 October 2004


Nowadays, just get a 1, 2 or 3.. whichever is mintest.. they are very very thin on the ground now for mint ones!

you can say that again

 

[VTRlover]

There is a nice one on autotrader at the moment, Williams 1, 40K, standard fro £5495. Seems like a good price to me, is it?

 

[richy]

i got the williams 3, use to have a mk1 vtr before this, u will love it may be older but its just miles better car! hadnling is fantastic/power delivery from 2500rpm to limiter(6400), brakes are loads better lol( u should no saxo brakes are shocking) lol

as for in real world against 172, ive never had a problem with em at all , u dont have to rev knackeres off the williams to get anywere fast mate,

also the williams 3(i have this one) has abs/sunroof/ full electric-mirrors/windows/sunroof, monaco blue paint, not 449 sports blue like 1 and 2, but all in all u will love it , trust me compared to a vtr is 10x better!!

 

[VTRlover]

Is the power delivery smooth or does it have a kick?

What sort of speeds have you been to against a 172 and how much of a difference actually was there? Have you ever actually beaten a 172? Have you encountered any VTSs or GTIs and what was the outcome?

Are parts easy to get hold of and is it reliable as an every day car?

 

[richy]

power delivery is smooth from 2500 rpm but at 4kish u get a kick as it pulls itself to the limit, u can be going round a corner in second at 15mph and put ya foot down and shoot off, power is there, no waiting for it to get to 4k for it to go.

as for 172, its pretty even, messing about against my mates old one and sat even untill very high speeds, as for vts/gti always have egde over them, not actualy encounted one that is faster then williams YET

 

[Lotuz]

My previous car was a 1997 106 1.6 Rallye. Believe me youll love the Williams. Not only because of the extra power, but also because of the great seats, and the engine sound just is fantastic. Engine maintenance can be expensive though.

 

[2 live]

I dont know mate..........i dont think the engine maintenance costs are all that high really...........

but as in performance etc..the williams and 172 are very close..in mine ive never really been beaten by a 172.....i have been beaten by a vts tho............oh the shame.........but that is 1 freak vts lol......but again mine is classed as 1 of the good ones...and the 172s that get near it are also the good ones......so very equal, with the willy just edging it....hehe....

for comfort /handling/bang for buck............i dont really think the williams can be beat........as has been said before tho.....personaly id go for a willy 1.....but these are getin rarer than hens teeth in good nick.....just buy the best u can afford mate.1,2 or 3...

 

[Daz]

Ive looked around, and for the money/insurance (ok, its group 17 but costs arnt bad for the performance!).. you cannot get a better car than the Williams.

End Of.

 

[VTRlover]

You guys have convinced me now to get a Williams- its the stories of it staying level with 172s that won me over cos when I test drove the Cup, my god it felt fast and if I can get a more exclusive car that looks better and costs half the price Im all for it

Thanks guys- how much should I spend to get a real goodun and are there any specialist well respected dealers that may be able to source one?

 

[Richyrich69]

Where abouts are you from mate?

Also i dont know if it was an insurance mistake, but when i was looking for my Williams i got some online quotes on a willy 1,2 and a 3 and for some reason the williams 1 was cheaper quote from the same company. probably just a freak incident but worked out ok for me!

My gf has a 172 an the main difference is the 172 is more refined. the willy is alot louder, mainly due to the decat and magnex ive got on.

Its probably because im used to the williams but driving the 172 you feel like your sat on it, in the willy you sit low in the gripping seat. the willy does feel quicker but thats mostly due to the sound and vibrations!.

Not a lot better cars for the price. should be getting a pretty damn good willy for 4-5k. have seen lots around the 3.5k mark, but havent seen any in the flesh/metal.

 

[Richyrich69]

Strange - just did an online quote with tesco insurance, 24 y/o, 2 yrs NCB same details for each the came out as;

Williams 1 - £1046.85

Williams 2 - £1060.50

Williams 3 - £1236.90

Maybe just tesco never tried it with any others, but for my renewal in Nov greenlight have saved me £250 from that!

 

[VTRlover]

Im from West Sussex between Kent and Hampshire mate.

I know what you mean about the seat, even on its lowest setting I was quite high and it felt like I was sitting facing more to the right than the left, maybe Im just weird

Thats what I want, a proper old school hot hatch that was made for one thing- going fast with comfort a secondary consideration. What difference would a de-cat system, manifold and induction kit make to performance apart from being a lot louder?

 

[Richyrich69]

Couldnt tell you for sure yet mate, Mine had been chipped,K&N, full magnex and decat when i bought it. have a vid somewhere of the previous owned at pod doing a 14.8 1/4 mile. which aint bad.

I had it Rolling Roaded when i bought it, but that was without the decat and got 130 bhp atw, (approx 155 at fly) and found out the K&N was pulling in hot air and loosing me power. Have since put the decat back on, and the standard airbox (awaiting a ITG panel filter for it) will b getting it RRd again soon hopefully before xmas, and will let you know if it made any difference.

And it is very loud! with decat and magnex motorway trips are a right headache. B roads are whats its all about.

If your ever down dorset way give us a shout, can go for a hoon in mine.

 

[VTRlover]

Interesting, Ill give it a go...

 

[VTRlover]

Too right a 14.8 aint exactly shabby! If ever Im down in Dorset Ill let you know- we can go 172 baiting Thanks for your advice

 

[Tiger]

Quote: Originally posted by Richyrich69 on 27 October 2004


Strange - just did an online quote with tesco insurance, 24 y/o, 2 yrs NCB same details for each the came out as;

Williams 1 - £1046.85

Williams 2 - £1060.50

Williams 3 - £1236.90

Maybe just tesco never tried it with any others, but for my renewal in Nov greenlight have saved me £250 from that!







take it thats fully comp mate? im the same 24, 2 years NCD, im 638 TPFT for willy 2

 

[BigBoreBri]

Quote: Originally posted by VTRlover on 26 October 2004


Thanks for the advice mate, I have to say I was expecting, having posted on a Clio forum to be told that the VTS/GTI wouldnt stand a chance against the 172 or Williams!

I wasnt expecting someone to say that theyd rather a decent Williams over a 172 and that the Williams has more torque Which would you say is quicker, I know the stats are in favour of the 172 but in the real world to 100 would a Williams be far off?

Also which of the Williams, 1, 2 or 3 would you suggest getting and the fact that the cars are all getting a bit old Im a bit concerned about the running costs and availability of spares. Are my wories justified? How much could I pick up a decent Williams for?

Trust me mate the 172s are nice for a "newer" car but once you have driven a williams you know its special, its a "Drivers car" through and through!

What you would find is that a 172/williams will be virtually level to the ton but the williams hits 5th gear about the ton and with its higher gearing it will lag a little to give the 172 some ground, not much tho as torque delivery soon brings it back near even again...

Top end on a williams is about 135/138... thats hitting the limiter tho!!

Top end on a 172 is about 140/142 i found with mine...

As said before any williams will do providing you get a good one, personally id only go for a williams 3 as the one i had was mint!! Only had 18k on her last year when i bought her and she was pristene!!!

I sold it a few months back for over £6k so expect that kinda price range for a minter... providing you can find one that is!

 

[richy]

u wont be disapointed with it, same again maintanence costs are not bad, no worse then when i had vtr lol only thing i had go wrong so far in 7 months of ragging lol is snapped clutch cable and my alternator started not bothering to charge lol, thats cost me £90ish all together, fuel cost is actaully same as vtr was, i could only get 30mpg out of the vtr! shocking car lol, but this is same and its got full system and decat on it!

 

[TheJesus]

great cars m8, never had so much fun behind the wheel before and Ive driven some pretty decent cars.

 

[Ian_182]

You will move on in leaps and bounds moving from a vtr to a willy...even 10yrs on they are showing a lot of cars how to do things...If you stay on the forum "the jesus",martin,flaming monkey and 2live will tell you ~~~ you need to know(amongst others)

ian

 

[Martin]

I wasnt expecting that Ian...LOL. I too went from a Vtr to a Williams and I have to say the difference in handling and performance was rather large! Just make sure you buy a minter though as there are a lot of mint cars out there which are far from it! Check out the buyers guide on here and dont buy the first thing you see...Id prefer a 1 or 2 as the 3 has a sunroof which is renowned for leaking.

 

[VTRlover]

Sound advice guys!

BigBoreBri- they can hit the limiter in 5th! My VTR has never hit the limiter and believe me it visits it rather often, lol

Yeah ideally Id like a 1 cos they have the gold plaque but Im not going to be fussy if a really good example comes up.

 

[BigBoreBri]

Yea mate one of the few production cars ive known off that hits the limiter in 5th!!!

You have to bear in mind tho the engine characteristics mean that it only revs to 6.5k RPM, a lot of people who have chipped there F7R engines will say that they have had no problems revving it up to 7.5k RPM but its peak power delivery is about 6k anyway!!

Just to put a point about the sunroof, true its a common problem but if its been well looked after then it shouldnt be much of a worry...

Ive normally found its that if the cars been outside most of its life the seals tend to deteriorate, but if it has then id be more worried about rust than new seals, lol

 

[Lagerlout]

You wont go far wrong with a Williams mate, provided you can find a good one. Ive been looking at one for a second car and there are some real dogs out there.... You may have to wait a while for good one to come along a a decent price as they still demand a premium (and rightly so).

PS - 172 has more torque than a Williams, just a little higher up the rev range (200Nm @ 5400 rpm vs 175Nm @ 4500 rpm)

PPS. Ive never hit the limiter in my 172, but I have had the shift light on in fifth (on a private runway)

 

[TheJesus]

I went from a Zetec S to the Willy, which id say is similar performance to a VTR and the difference was massive. It really does feel like one or two steps up in terms of straight line and cornering performance... and Id say I knew the Zetecs limits as I didnt really like it a thrashed the absolute crap out of it. Dont have to do that with these, the torque just lifts the revs into the cam zone all day long without so much as a struggle. You can have some serious fun round the A-B roads in Wales too

 

[Tucks]

LOL,I went from WRX to Williams,Personally I considerd it a step up,Lots wouldnt agree I know,but for me the willy was never about outright speed,its got so much more than that........its class!!

 

[VTRlover]

^^^ I want one sooo bad!

 

[2 live]

lol.....id probs agree with that lol.........the scoobs arent all that unless they got some serious mods

 

[VTRlover]

Do you reckon a Williams would stay with a Scooby in the twisties?

 

[Tiger]

defo not on a straight i know that, one pissed all over me in mine once

 

[VTRlover]

How bout the corners tho as they are renowned for being one of the best handling cars there are! And the Williams is arguably the best hot hatch so it would be interesting to know which would come out on top...

 

[Lagerlout]

The Williams is a fantastic handling car. But would it beat a 4wd car through the twisties? Not sure. Depends how twisty the twisty bits are I suppose and how big the drivers balls are.

 

[Leigh]

Read all of the above and agree the williams is a fantastic car. I have both a Williams 1 and a 182. BOTH ARE VERY GOOD IN THEIR OWN RIGHT, However very different. If your looking for a involvng drive then the willy wins hands down. However if you want comfort and a fast vehicle then go for a 172/ 182.

Ps if your serious about wanting a nice one, then let me know. My Williams 1 is going up for sale very soon. Ask around and those that know about this car will tell ya what its like. Oh and is not a standard engine. Check the pics in the willy section. The boot install has changed since those pics as well.

 

[VTRlover]

Leigh from your experience of owning both which would you say is faster to 60 and 100? I know the stats point to the 182 but I know how very few Williams actually produce standard power, usually having more.

Im not really in a position to buy at the moment cos I havent sold my car but would appreciate some more information on yours. What work has been done to the engine? WHat other cars have you given a spanking?

 

[Martin]

Id say the condition/servicing/mileage can have a big affect (15 bhp or more) on the F7R engine...if you get a good one (with breathing mods) I imagine it would be as quick if not quicker than a 182...

 

[VTRlover]

Blimey!

By the way Martin I like your avatar- I take it from your sig you have a Williams. Was that on your Willy?