AEM Wideband Controller

[Jonny1*2]

Hi guys,

I'm looking at fitting one of these in the next week as the EC1 has automapping via wideband. Basically my lambda is shot, and the car is currently running on closed loop fuel control (setup on dyno). However it is definately not fuelling correctly at low revs, so instead of getting it tweeked again, I thought fitting this would be a better long term solution.

How will this effect performance? Are there any downsides to running this setup? Anyone got any experience running them?

 

[Cupman29]

Thinking about getting one myself so would be interested in this too.

 

[tom172cup]

Me to

 

[Jonny1*2]

Lol. Glad I'm not alone. Come on Chip

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

The AEM units are very very good, I had on on the last car, i didnt link it to the ECU mind as i played in closed loop also, if its been mapped correctly then closed loop your car should run perfectly and the Lambnda being buggered wont make any different as it wont be used any ways

 

[f0xy]

I have one, very good. There is a local place doing them at a good price Jonny, let me know if you want details.

 

[Jonny1*2]

The AEM units are very very good, I had on on the last car, i didnt link it to the ECU mind as i played in closed loop also, if its been mapped correctly then closed loop your car should run perfectly and the Lambnda being buggered wont make any different as it wont be used any ways

Yeah the lambda makes no difference Andy, but it was only noticed on the dyno, so there wasn't time to tweak it everywhere. Its sometimes splutters at low rpm. Did you wire yours directly into the oem lambda wiring?

 

[Jonny1*2]

I have one, very good. There is a local place doing them at a good price Jonny, let me know if you want details.

Sounds tempting Jord, info would be good thanks. They are on eBay for £138 delivered ATM.

 

[f0xy]

Il check up and drop you a PM tomorrow. I had it on the E30 before I got rid, going to be using it on the E36 soon for.... well I need to decide what ECU to use first.

 

[Jonny1*2]

Essentially once you fit these, the ecu needs adjusting and it adjusts fuelling all the time?
Yeah PM would be good thanks

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

no it was wired on its own, its got nothign to do with the OEM wires mate.

and i wouldnt get such a big thing with out getting tweeked

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

Drop Chris a Pm he may do you some discount,
http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/index.php?categoryID=89

 

[Jonny1*2]

no it was wired on its own, its got nothign to do with the OEM wires mate.

and i wouldnt get such a big thing with out getting tweeked

Can you dumb it down a little for me . As I understood it (or not as the case may be.lol), due to the auto mapping on the EC1, it should control AFR consistently, so no tweeking/mapping required once fitted? As far as I know, it can be wired into the old harness, but I did wonder as it's a 5 wire controller going into 3 wires (iirc) on standard lambda wiring. Maybe I miss heard this part though. Apart from that, the ECU needs to be adjusted to read at wideband, and a file needs adding to sync everything together. I thought it was a plug and play item really?

Drop Chris a Pm he may do you some discount,
http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/index.php?categoryID=89

Which Chris mate?

 

[Cup_Phil]

You don't need wideband at all for ecu control, in fact it's not recommended as they are too slow to refresh
A good narrowband is fine

I run a wideband on a gauge so I can keep an eye on things and the ecu runs an ngk mk1 16v lambda that was about £35

 

[mr.pink87]

You can feed the wideband signal into the EC1 and have it running closed loop control at all loads/rpms by setting the target lambda table.

 

[Jonny1*2]

You don't need wideband at all for ecu control, in fact it's not recommended as they are too slow to refresh
A good narrowband is fine

I run a wideband on a gauge so I can keep an eye on things and the ecu runs an ngk mk1 16v lambda that was about £35

Is that definately correct? I thought with automapping capabilities it would make adjustments without much trouble. This is what they suggest to do for their own ECU's if i'm reading it correctly. It only works via voltage like the OEM lambda, but with better accuracy readouts and hense more accurate voltage to the ecu?

 

[Laine_16v]

AEM UEGO setups are half decent and cheap, can be used as a wideband or narrowband input into the ECU meaning you can do away with the standard lambda sensor all together.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Andy keeps saying closed loop when he means open loop, lol

Closed loop = using lamda
Open loop = running straight off the map


Im not a fan of autotuning software TBH, its only doing something trivial than you can do easily yourself anyway, and if your lamda is out of calibration the whole lot ends up wrong.

If you do a lot of the same ecu, and have a setup you know works well in terms of the calibration between the ecu and the wideband (so for example someone like sheady doing SM4 autronic using an Autronic wideband it makes perfect sense) then fair enough it saves a little time, but I see more people having issues with doing so than not having issues.

Best way to get your part throttle stuff right IMHO is:
Map it manually with a wideband
Run a narrow band sensor, they are FAR more reliable.

TBH though as a lot of the cars I do are rarely used on the road, a lot of the time I just map open loop about right, and leave it at that, less to go wrong.

 

[Chip-mk1]

AEM UEGO setups are half decent and cheap, can be used as a wideband or narrowband input into the ECU meaning you can do away with the standard lambda sensor all together.

Id take a narrow band reading over a simulated one any day of the week TBH!
If you want to run closed loop, a narrowband is a far better option than a cheap aftermarket wideband.

 

[Dan519]

narrowband is actually VERY useful for mapping the closed loop areas of the map. With feedback displayed you can see what it really going on, and fine tune the map to be making very minimal adjustments. You're actually being more accurate to what will be really happening in real life once it's being used day to day.

 

[Jonny1*2]

So where does the benefits come with wideband? I thought they were more accurate

 

[Chip-mk1]

So where does the benefits come with wideband? I thought they were more accurate

Narrow band is very accurate at 14.7:1 and just either side of it.

Wideband is Fairly accurate from 8:1-20:1, but not a match for a narrowband and also you run into further lack of accuracy as a result of calibration issues with getting the ECU to actually read exactly the same as the wideband display itself does.

Very expensive manufacturer equipment is very accurate everywhere of course.

 

[Chip-mk1]

narrowband is actually VERY useful for mapping the closed loop areas of the map. With feedback displayed you can see what it really going on, and fine tune the map to be making very minimal adjustments. You're actually being more accurate to what will be really happening in real life once it's being used day to day.

Yes, narrowband for a road car is a great tool for getting economical part throttle cruising.

 

[Dan519]

So where does the benefits come with wideband? I thought they were more accurate

nope, they're just more flexible. They're probably actually less accurate as they run on a 5v range rather than the 1v range a narrowband sensor runs. Narrowband can't see much of a wide range of AFR. so it's not suitable for full throttle or high load mapping and that is where wideband comes in. Wideband is a tool as far as I'm concerned, and not a fixture.

 

[Jonny1*2]

Ah ok. So what's the point in the ec1 having a 'map via wideband' feature?

What would be the best thing to do car wise then? It definately needs some tweaking

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ah ok. So what's the point in the ec1 having a 'map via wideband' feature?

TBH the main reason for such features is so that people who cant map will buy the ECU thinking it will magically do it all for them I think, its far more useful for marketing than for actual mapping.
The bits it does, take a decent mapper not very long anyway.

What would be the best thing to do car wise then? It definately needs some tweaking

Long term solution best option for part throttle stuff is a narrowband.
For sorting your current issues, either tweak it manually or you can try trusting the autotune, it normally gets "ok" results if correctly configured on most ECUs although I havent personally used it on the EC1.

 

[Jonny1*2]

I wouldn't feel confident messing with maps. If I fit a functioning narrowband it would mean mapping is needed again. What about just leaving as is and having the current map adjusted?

 

[Chip-mk1]

It needs mapping with or without a sensor fitting by the sounds of it.
A narrowband won't in anyway increase the mapping requirements though.

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

your right Chip i do and i dont know why PMSL opps

 

[Jonny1*2]

Found a potential issue. The touring car body keeps sticking about a mm open. Not sure why, but its when warm. It's not the cable as it does it when manipulated by hand. Could it be the main spring or the fact the return spring isn't very good?

 

[Dan519]

Get a shorter spring that's still under tension when the throttle is fully closed. Install looks a lash up

 

[Jonny1*2]

Any type preferable?

 

[sprintcup]

Found a potential issue. The touring car body keeps sticking about a mm open. Not sure why, but its when warm. It's not the cable as it does it when manipulated by hand. Could it be the main spring or the fact the return spring isn't very good?

What I did John was change the bolt holding the TB on with a 50mm set screw and fitted an angle bracket, this way you can adjust the tension as required, the spring needs to be running parrallel with the bolt and not at an angle as you have it, I don't think it helps that the throttle plate is turned 90degs, as Dan said not the best fit, I'll be looking at doing a proper job myself over winter, just wish the throttle stops had'nt been cut as the plenum neck could have been machined from what I've seen to clear.

Regards Russ......

 

[Jonny1*2]

I think I need to pop over to see yours at some point mate. Would be goo to have a chat about 'issues'. Wish I could come oulton this weekend, but I'm busy.

 

[sprintcup]

I think I need to pop over to see yours at some point mate. Would be goo to have a chat about 'issues'. Wish I could come oulton this weekend, but I'm busy.

Not a problem, I still want the flywheel from you as well if you still have it ? forgot all about that tbh, I'm not sure what weekends I'll have free but send me a pm on available dates your free and I'll call across to yours, mines a temp fix untill I have a good look but it idles ok and does'nt over rev anymore, just a bit worried about what Dan said about the re-cal of the throttle pot for idle.

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

My turbo car used to do this when hot...