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Any(throttle) body seen these before



B

bmh.01

  BMW M135i
Yeh heard of AT before, someone does/has fitted them before i'm sure. Don't remember hearing anthing bad about them.
 
I

Icarus

Absolutely fantastic lot. I've seen the test data from a Mountune project where these bodies at 38mm were matching the flow capacity of 45mm Jenvies with a hell of a lot more velocity, we were involved on the engine control side of it.

I'm not aware of any previous testing done on F4's, if there was and someone found a loss I'd be very surprised and would be looking more towards the test/setup side of things for the problem rather than these bodies.

To give you some idea they are now standard fit on a couple of the Mountune engine packages and at least one very major OEM who likes fitting port throttles on their premium performance engine packages is sniffing around.

Cheers
M
 
M

mini-valver

Lot of controversy with these on the F4R. CBA going into it though, lol.
 
I

Icarus

Where's this controversy come from? Quite interested to know because the test data I have seen has been extremely positive. To give you some idea Mountune are the guys behind the JP1 engine package, FPA and F2 engine packages and all the Ascari BMW engine packages. They know their onions!

Has someone just stuck a set on and made less power or has there been proper testing done? No reason why the results on the F4R should be any difference to what Mountune have found on the Duratec.

Ben - Megasquirt is rubbish. There's no control over the quality of the product or software and some are still using a sodding printer plug as the primary loom interface. People will call me a snob because of what I work with day to day but honestly I am most definately not, megasquirt though - good to build and gain an understanding of how engine control works, not good to run an expensive engine package on IMHO!

Cheers
M
 
172Ben

172Ben

Know a few who swear by it, i ran emerald on my old metro with bodies. Some people say DTA.

Few punto gt's are running it i know of, due to cost i think, whole package comes to under £300 from the US, then mapping, built it themselves and one girl mapped it herself with her fella. As you said great learning step.
 
H

homer simpson

  megan R26.R number 006
gdi was developing the kit with them i don't know what happened but they removed all of it off there cars and a time atack car they was running for some one i await andy from gdi to explain what was up with them i am shore they did not make the bhp figures they was hoping from them
 
I

Icarus

Where ever possible you should aim to keep the OEM engine management system on a modern car. The amount of money invested into them is huge and their performance is way above a fair percentage of aftermarket ECU's. One popular aftermarket system on an equaly popular car I can't get more than 27 degrees (real 27 degrees not what the software reckons) of spark advance into it as the timing accuracy is so poor - this is of an OEM sensor and trigger wheel. Same car with the standard ECU I can get 30 degrees into it. That's worth 4.5bhp. This is just one issue with Megasquirt.

Above and beyond this how are you going to do your vibration/shake rig and high/low ambient testing to ensure the ECU will operate correctly in all conditions and temperatures? If you have access to a full electronics development lab then you can probably build a brilliant ECU from Megasquirt bits - but nearly everyone doesnt! A decent aftermarket ECU for something like a Clio 172/182 is 700 quid. It's a lot more than 400 quid to swap engines if an injector driver starts shitting out on your cheapy MS and you end up with a dead cyl as a result!

Cheers
M
 
I

Icarus

Bit of both. At that price point they are all much of a muchness with distinct advantages and disadvantages to each one.

E.G. Emerald - can be flaky in high ambients but great for a K-Series.
Omex/Gems Mini - No Can, No DBW, Really needs to be mounted out of the engine bay as its not a sealed unit.
DTA - Limited Support, some slightly odd strats.

The install and quality of loom counts for a lot as well. If you hack up the standard wiring loom and split the CPS signal then you are asking for trouble IMHO. It's the most important sensor on the engine and the quality and condition of the sensor output will determine how well your engine runs and how accurately spark timing and fueling is. Flaky 360 sync is just not acceptable.

The Cal can only be as good as the ECU as any waver in timing accuracy will render the calibrator unable to run as much advance as they may like, assuming the ECU and software reports spark accurately - they may have 32 degrees dialed in when in reality its only running 27. Calibration quality is key to a reliable engine package though and each area, ECU choice, Loom and install and Calibration should be treated with the same level of importance.

Cheers
M
 
D

Dan R

  Mk2 172
Heard that gains were not estimated to be as good when fitted to an actual car. Stick with jenveys!!! You know where u are then :)
 
R

RyanD

  vtr, 172, s1 rallye
im sure they produced sod all power when fitted to a certain TA car, AT wouldnt aknowlege this and so then jenveys were fitted and more power came.

AT do all their calcualtions on computer not in the real world iirc
 
H

hissingsid

  Clio 220 lpg
Well After a lot of debaiting I have bought some of these throttle bodies and hope to get them put on in the next week. They have sent me straight and tappered ram pipes so hope to tune the car on both to see if there is any power difference. I need some new filters as I'm selling my old filters with my old throttle bodies on e-bay , so if anyone knows where to get a good deal on itg filters let me know:D.
 
I

Icarus

hissingsid said:
Well After a lot of debaiting I have bought some of these throttle bodies and hope to get them put on in the next week. They have sent me straight and tappered ram pipes so hope to tune the car on both to see if there is any power difference. I need some new filters as I'm selling my old filters with my old throttle bodies on e-bay , so if anyone knows where to get a good deal on itg filters let me know:D.
Click to expand...

Based on the results I've seen recently of ATP bodies on a Renault engine you've made an excellent choice!

Cheers
M
 
RSTuning

RSTuning

ClioSport Club Member
  R35 GTR
Good choice mate. We'll be doing some back to back tests shortly but form what we have tested so far on an F7R they are fantastic. Plus the build quality is fantastic.
 
H

hissingsid

  Clio 220 lpg
pmurray said:
Good choice mate. We'll be doing some back to back tests shortly but form what we have tested so far on an F7R they are fantastic. Plus the build quality is fantastic.
Click to expand...
Yes I got them a week ago and at the moment they look very well engineered nice cnc machine work.
I spoke to someone from RS tunning about a Clio they were tunning did they get the power figures hey wanted?
 
S

stan*

  2005 Nissan Navara
pmurray said:
Good choice mate. We'll be doing some back to back tests shortly but form what we have tested so far on an F7R they are fantastic. Plus the build quality is fantastic.
Click to expand...

Have you got any before and after runs from Ronnees with these on?

Would be nice to see kinda how they compare to jenvey.
 
A

AT_Power

  Nissan Skyline
Hi, John here from AT Power.

Hissing sid (Alistair?) - We can supply all ITG filters if you need one to go with your throttles.

Paul / Icarus - Thanks for the kind comments :eek:

stan* said:
Would be nice to see kinda how they compare to jenvey.
Click to expand...

Scholar tested our duratec DTH (same size as F4R/F7R Megane) on engine dyno 272bhp (2.0 engine). Tried 45mm jenvey and made 264bhp on same engine. Mountune only had the smaller duratec system when they tested.

We ran a Honda Civic Type-R engined mini last week at APT. Standard cams/engine K20A2 EP3 EDM. Did have induction kit, z-cars manifold/exhaust, remap and made 196bhp. We fitted our DTH throttles and Typhoon ECU and it made 231bhp. Injectors couldn't give any more revs. ~200 @ wheels. Mapped by Simon at Specialist Components.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwDYT4yiNLY - Listen for tha Vtak! :evil:

Email me if you have questions!

Thanks,

John
j.goddard@active-technologies.co.uk
www.atpower.co.uk
www.atpowershop.co.uk
 
F

fmp_

  clio 200 F4Rt
i had some of these on my Clio 172 Time Attack car.

Whilst being mapped the car wouldnt make more than 200bhp.

AT were informed of this, but were so confident in thier computer generated results they could accept the fact.

So we fucked them off, put some Jenveys on, and the same engine made just shy of 240bhp.

Thats my experience of them.

But good luck all the same.
 
H

hissingsid

  Clio 220 lpg
fmp_ said:
i had some of these on my Clio 172 Time Attack car.

Whilst being mapped the car wouldnt make more than 200bhp.

AT were informed of this, but were so confident in thier computer generated results they could accept the fact.

So we f**ked them off, put some Jenveys on, and the same engine made just shy of 240bhp.

Thats my experience of them.

But good luck all the same.
Click to expand...
Sorry to here that I just hope I don't have the same problem as you had. I'll let you all know my results in 2/3 weeks time when I have got the whole package together and sorted.
 
A

AT_Power

  Nissan Skyline
fmp_ said:
AT were informed of this, but were so confident in thier computer generated results they could accept the fact.
Click to expand...

I have read about your issues and I am sorry about that. I wasn't around at the time, but my job is to support people with the throttles and find out what is wrong if they don't make the power. Having never seen your installation I can't comment on why it didn't make the power it should have. We have previously had people not getting full throttle, which is important with our throttle design. This has made more than 20bhp difference in the past. This was by no means "numpties" not getting full throttle either, I've even done it myself. I also know of an F3 car running these throttles.

Hopefully people will have some good results to post up. Again though I am really sorry about your experience. Please PM me if you like, I'm interested to hear it from yourself.

Thanks,

John.

P.S. Activ, YHPM.
 
Eckascliovalver

Eckascliovalver

  Astra van,Mk1 nova
Im now confused, are the good or bad lol.

What ecu setup is best for running them? Do the linkages etc come with the kit?

Anyone with the kit is more than welcome to pm me with details.

As you can see when it comes to this sort of thing im not to experianced :eek:
 
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