att Nick Read or other NOSites

[Captain Slarty]

Nick.. do you fancy working on a little project to design a progressive controller ??.. We know how the std unit works, but what would you change in it if you had carte-blanche ??.. what extra features / abilites etc...

I have a few ideas.. gear position programmable via a gear pos sensor(s)... in car control box with individual gear start, ramp, time / ramp, easily adjustable at any time. Possibly abs sensor for to register spin... sort of traction / launch control but just nos/fuel .... built in r****d unit .. just for a start.. built in gas evac prior to starting....

will be pic micro based.. ya can have a working copy if ya want to assist (itl be untidy, but working fine) ??..

any micro designers out there or electronics gurus , I can build it and program it no probs, but it will be quicker (and better) with more help (ie, Microchip Pic or PicBasic assembler, FET power output stage design experience etc)??.. it could be a free club design to anyone that wants it (Build it yerself though lol!) .. not to be offered for resale, just a project..



Joe.

 

[Pysco]

Oh YES!!!! Id be well up for taking part in such a project I can think of some fetures that would be cool, but I know nothing about electronics.

 

[Captain Slarty]

Great stuff m8.. fire away.. the more the merrier.

 

[Captain Slarty]

Just had another thunk.. a bottle pressure sensor that adjusts fuel flow... and a temp sensor for Nicks bloody heated seat element lol... hmmm, it could tell ya when the bottle was up to temp .. and possible control pressure via temp... hmmmmmmm...

 

[Pysco]

Is there anyway you could work out how much is left in the bottle, by mesuring the temp. and pressure? Temp. sensor would be good for a heated element, wouldnt need to adjust feuling so much then.

 

[Nick Read]

An interesting proposition Joe...if I could have everything I wanted in one box it would be:

adjustable start power from 10-100%

rise time adjustable from 1-10 seconds

gearchange reset

connection to coil to control ignition r****d and full throttle gearchange (including momentary solenoid shutdown during change)

connection to ECU for rpm with a programmable crude nitrous/fuel map eg no nitrous at all under 3000 rpm, >4000 50% then rising in steps, an extra 10% power for each 500 rpm.

A lot of these functions I have already - I have it set up so I can heat the bottle, monitor the bottle pressure and temperature, adjust and monitor fuel pressure, monitor air/fuel ratio, adjust ignition r****d and do full throttle gearchanges. But its untidy and theres a hell of a lot of wiring and plumbing I had to do. Its too late for me but it might be handy for someone else.

I would say the one thing I would dearly like out of that would be an rpm linked nitrous/ignition r****d map.

 

[Simon]

Nick, when you going to get the BBPT Turbo Conversion then??

 

[Alex M]

Is it not possible to do some of this with a custom map. Surely the r****d and the increase in fuel anyway. I know this might mean the car will be sh*t all the time the gas isnt flowing but I have an idea. If you had two ECUs installed in the car and you set them up so you could switch between them, this might be a good idea, although it would be difficult to implement although not impossible. Another idea would be to use a piggy back chip, such as superchips ICON system, which was originally done so non reprogrammable ECUs (Rover MEMS springs to mind) could be altered. As it is can be whipped in and out dead easily it might be easier to use this. This is just an idea, so feel free to poke holes in it, as it sound too easy.



Another idea i have had, is maybe the club should chip in for the gear to reprgramme the ECU, then everybody could have access to the right programme for them, and a library of different maps could be kept with in the club, just another idea, which could be interesting. I know a little about electronics (did some at Uni) and have thought about NOS for a while so interested in anything developed, and will help if I can.



Alex M

 

[Captain Slarty]

Hi Alex.

doing it with ecus is not practical really. The controller for the nos solenoids needs to be specific.

Also, re custom maps, its like this...

there are no details as to where in the code the maps are.. they can be different even from revisions of code on the same model, and, almost always differ from model to model. The code is protected by mutiple diverse checksum routines to ensure code integrity. Not to stop you accessing it, but to enable the ecu to monitor for possible errors.

Even if you access the code (certainly possible) then you need to , not only find the maps, but to also decide what exactly the map is for as there is no set format. Once this is done, the changes need to be applied preferably on a dynomometer, the checksums recalculated, and then reloaded and tested. This is extremely time consuming and expensive. The software and hardware alone is about 4500 euro just for this, then the time and the dyno setup.. not really economically viable.

Nick.. If you had the rpm map, are you of the impression that this would offer more flexibility than the ramp time system ?

It would seem to me also, that linking to rpm is both logical and accurate. I belive the reason why commercial units do not offer this is one of cost and the aftermarket fitment of gear pos sensors only.

This would also allow several safeguards.. ie.. missed change cutoff, over rev cut off etc. The one I would like to have is nos based launch / traction.. certainly on my 172 is is easy to get a controlled start with minimum wheel spin, using nos would be a bit hit n miss or mean minimal delivery to assist traction. If one could link the nos delivery system to the abs wheel sensors, it would be possible to have a traction system based on nos alone?. FTGC could be used with the built in rev limiter if accurate enough too.

By using a simple data aquisition system from the abs sensors, it would even be possible to manually set the delivery to control the first sign of wheel spin in gear.. it would also seem possible to allow the system to operate in closed loop in learning mode.. ie.. you do a run and the system senses too harsh a delivery, it then tweaks the nos map for a fraction below this setting. this would basically allow a mapped to rpm to traction delivery system that is optimised.

The map would only need to be 1 layer.. not even 2d, as the nos deleivery would be based on WOT. in the lower launch gear, providing you can control traction without nos, then the system would also work.

it would appear that this would offer the max power delivery at all times and at all power points leading to a fully optimised system.

If one was to link that to pressure and temp monitoring, then the system could be fully self regulating.

Joe.

 

[Nick Read]

Yes I would say that the main problems with nitrous use are air/fuel ratio and rpm linking. I have no problems with my ratios because everything is so adjustable with the way I have my car set up. But certainly if the controller could take care of the bottle pressure automatically this would help to make it simpler to use.

I think rpm linking must be the way forward though. A progressive gives you a time ramp but at the end of the day its not a very flexible way to drive unless youre going for all out acceleration. Really the aim should be that nitrous would work in the same way as a turbo but without the lag, therefore as the revs rise so does the boost. If this could be programmed, then it would solve lots of problems in one fell swoop - firstly no drivetrain shock or engine damage through sudden power increases at low revs, secondly no worries about gearchanges and dropping to higher or lower revs because the amount of nitrous would always be matched to the rpm, thirdly you could even fix it so that the amount of nitrous/fuel per cylinder would remain constant whatever the revs were.

You could really use this sort of system in any conditions - just switch it on and suddenly your car will be more powerful at every point in the revs and at a level that would be safe for the engine so it would take all the bother out of firing nitrous.