Auto electrician required near Eastbourne, East Sussex

[Stu Lane]

Hi guys,
My 172 cup won't start.
I get the classic cracking with the red light on constantly. It cranks a few turns then gives up.
I've got another identical cup and have swapped over everything I can think of but it still doesn't start.

It was running last weekend but when testing the spark plugs one by one the car gave up firing again.

Does anyone know someone that can help diagnose the problem?

I've swapped over :
Engine loom
Coil pack
New plugs
Ht leads
Tested Relays
Key barrel, ecu and uch
Front Lambda sensor
Crank sensor
Throttle body
Injectors
Tried all the key tricks
Charged the battery.
Added another earth strap to the engine
Locked and unlocked the car etc
Run out of ideas now.

 

[Typhoon]

What is the immobiliser doing? Solid?

 

[Stu Lane]

What is the immobiliser doing? Solid?

Yeah. If I remove the key reader thing around the barrel I get the flashing light but I just get a solid light which I believe is an electrical fault

 

[Typhoon]

Yeah. If I remove the key reader thing around the barrel I get the flashing light but I just get a solid light which I believe is an electrical fault

Well yeah, if it's solid while you're trying to tick the car over then it's the immobiliser stopping it. Why? I have no idea.
I know you've charged the battery, but try another?

 

[Stu Lane]

Yeah I'll stick another on charge tonight.

I thought it could have been the battery as it just gave up starting after testing the plugs. FYI it's a dry cell battery.

Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Did you swap the black bit on the key when you tried the other uch/ecu?

 

[Stu Lane]

I swapped the barrel and key too so the set was complete.

 

[GrahamS]

I am very frequently in bexhill so can help for an hour sometime. Got CLIP so we can see what's going on.

 

[Stu Lane]

Ideal. Let me know when you're around. Thanks

 

[car.crash]

I had this on a clio before.
The issue was I had two different Clio keys on my keyring and quite often it read the code from the one that was dangling from the key ring and not in the ignition.

 

[Stu Lane]

I've got each key separate key in each barrel.
I'm sure it's either something stupid or a broken wire in the car. Without a proper wiring diagram it's a pain in the arse.

 

[Stu Lane]

update: I've added another battery with jump leads and same result. Cranks over about 4 times with solid red light.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Have a look under the fuse box cover in the engine bay and look for a fuse with 2 small red wires going into the bottom of it. It's at the end nearest the gearbox and the fuse holder is stuck on with double sided tape. Check the fuse is ok. Should be a blue fuse so 15a.

 

[Stu Lane]

I've got one like that with a red and yellow wire on it, it looks like an afterthought but it's on both my cups. Yeah it's all working.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Check for voltage at pin 10, 29 and 66 at the ecu mate. Engine cranking and check each one individually.

 

[Stu Lane]

ok, i'll see if i can find someone to help and ill try it....

Check for voltage at pin 10, 29 and 66 at the ecu mate. Engine cranking and check each one individually.

 

[NorthloopCup]

ok, i'll see if i can find someone to help and ill try it....

Check for voltage at each of those pins without the engine cranking as well.

 

[NorthloopCup]

@Stu Lane pin 30 as well for 12v. :up:

 

[Stu Lane]

UPDATE:
I've not been able to test while cranking the engine but with ignition off and on...

Ignition OFF
pin/voltage
10: 0v
29: 0v
66: 0v
30: 12v

Ignition ON
pin/voltage
10: 12v
29: 12v
66: 0v
30: 12v

66 had 0v with ignition off and on

 

[Stu Lane]

I've double checked this and have 12v both sides of the fuse.

Have a look under the fuse box cover in the engine bay and look for a fuse with 2 small red wires going into the bottom of it. It's at the end nearest the gearbox and the fuse holder is stuck on with double sided tape. Check the fuse is ok. Should be a blue fuse so 15a.

 

[Stu Lane]

Looking at this tread, i've also checked the following:
http://www.cliosport.net/threads/ec...es-lots-of-checks-already-carried-out.613803/



Earths - Pins 3,28,33 and 67 All fine
continuity from UCH to ECU between Pins 27 (ecu) - Pin 20 (uch) all ok
57 (ecu) - Pin 19 (uch) all ok

although on that thread, he never actually solved the problem. The main thing to note is that I've replaced my engine loom so i think if it is a problem with the wiring, it's got to be in the car.

I also took the cover off the UCH and it doesn't have any corrosion but then I've tried a new set anyway.

 

[GrahamS]

sorry Stu, only just seen this. I'll be down in bexhill one night this week if that works for you. drop me a PM when you're free

 

[Stu Lane]

UPDATE: IT'S WORKING!!!!!

OK so after trying everything i remembered that I had a similar problem on a BMW e30 and I need to earth the ECU. My ECU isn't in the normal location.
didn't fix it...
So i sat in the car and decided to check the fault codes again...
I then cleared the fault codes and checked they were cleared.
I then turned the key and it started.
Not sure if that would do it... I've still got the engine light on but now i've got to sort out the misfire which is back where i started...

 

[Stu Lane]

Ok so the only way to make it start is to check the codes, clear them and then it starts.
No idea why that is, idea thoughts?

And I've still got a misfire on cylinder 2. Its not plugs, leads, Injectors or coil as I've changed them.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Ok so the only way to make it start is to check the codes, clear them and then it starts.
No idea why that is, idea thoughts?

And I've still got a misfire on cylinder 2. Its not plugs, leads, Injectors or coil as I've changed them.

Well the fault codes would lead you to believe you've got a lambda sensor issue there mate.

 

[Stu Lane]

Agreed but the misfire is probably throwing the lambda sensor out as it's chucking fuel into the exhaust?

It appears that even resetting the codes isn't the fix. I've tried swapping the ECU, UCH and key but it doesn't make any difference.

I think it's clearly a sensor stopping it working so I'll start swapping sensors from the other engine one at a time, I've already swapped the lambda and it was covered in fuel when i took it out.

I think I need to use a better diagnostic tool to find the fault

 

[Stu Lane]

I need to figure out why there is a misfire on number 2 cylinder. Can't see why there would be unless the ECU was causing it?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Have you changed the injectors?

 

[Stu Lane]

Yes, and the fuel rail.

It's not the leads, plugs, injectors or coil as i've changed all those.

Have you changed the injectors?

 

[Stu Lane]

I'm going to go and clean up all of the contacts on the plugs and sensors as it could just be a poor connection...

 

[NorthloopCup]

Hmmm. Well that's certainly a strange one mate. You need a scanner that can stream the live data of the sensors.
Did you say you've changed the loom?

 

[Stu Lane]

Cleaned all the contacts on every plug and replaced the lambda sensors.

Bit fed up now.

Any ideas what I need to buy to be able to properly diagnose?

 

[STEVE.M]

Cleaned all the contacts on every plug and replaced the lambda sensors.

Bit fed up now.

Any ideas what I need to buy to be able to properly diagnose?

Someone (Jackson) had a misfire caused by poor MAP sensor connection last week.
Have you checked compressions,and dont forget No 1 cylinder is at the gearbox end when interpreting diagnostics on a Clio.

 

[Stu Lane]

I've cleaned all the plugs with contact cleaner.

Yeah it's #2 cylinder at fault as the plug is carboned up.

Compression looks good on all cylinders.

 

[Stu Lane]

I also replaced the map sensor. No difference.

 

[STEVE.M]

I also replaced the map sensor. No difference.

Is No 2 cylinder firing at all?
I,m confused,as you say on one hand that the lambda is awash with unburnt fuel,& then that the plug is carboned up(as in dry black soot?).
Also what do you mean by compressions look good?Figures read from a compression guage?

 

[Stu Lane]

compression reads just over 150PSI on all cylinders.
I don't know if it's firing at all but assume it's partically firing to be sooted up?

It could well be the fuel on the lambda was from lots of cranking and not starting.

 

[STEVE.M]

compression reads just over 150PSI on all cylinders.
I don't know if it's firing at all but assume it's partically firing to be sooted up?

It could well be the fuel on the lambda was from lots of cranking and not starting.

Hope GrahamS can help with his clip.The wiring on Clios is not the best.
150 psi is not that high,but could be an anomaly of the guage you are using.Alternatively the valve timing could have slipped?
Is there any smoke indicating a guide seal could have failed,fouling the plug?

 

[Stu Lane]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the comments.
What sort of pressure should I expect to get? It was the same on all 4 cylinders.
There's no smoke that i've noticed.
I'd like to buy the correct diagnostic tool so I've got something to hand, any ideas what the best option is? I was looking at getting an rstuner.

 

[STEVE.M]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the comments.
What sort of pressure should I expect to get? It was the same on all 4 cylinders.
There's no smoke that i've noticed.
I'd like to buy the correct diagnostic tool so I've got something to hand, any ideas what the best option is? I was looking at getting an rstuner.

It would not be right for me to comment on diagnostic tools,as I have no personal experience of them.
RS tuner is well thought of on CS,though there is a complication with obtaining the correct program/licence for your specific model.A bit like buying a CD player,but it will only play what you want to hear when you put the correct disc in.
180 psi seems to be the figure for a healthy engine,but as all readings are the same,it could be that your guage is a liitle inaccurate,and that compression is not the problem.
Search the forum by normal compression,and pay particular attention to any responces by MickPm or Dan,CS specialists.