Bleeding brakes - General procedure

[ClioPowa]

Hi all,
When it comes to bleeding brakes I know there's a sequence to follow and what the procedure is when doing it with a friend.
My question is around what should one do when the brakes harden up during the bleeding process?

E.g.

1. With the car switched off Person A pumps the brakes a couple of times and then holds the brake pedal down
2. Person B bleed opens the bleed valve on the caliper for a couple of seconds until air bubbles pass through and then closes the bleed valve
3. Person A lets go off the brake pedal
4. The above is repeated a couple of time until the brake pedal goes hard and can't be pressed anymore

At this point are you meant to switch the car on and off so that the pedal becomes useable again?

 

[JamesBryan]

No, keep going with the engine off a few times until no air or fresh fluid colour comes through.

Some have bled these with the engine running but I've never tried it.

 

[Mbeau]

Or get an Ezi bleed kit if you can as it makes the process so much quicker and easier. You can also do it on your own. Think they are about £15-£20.

 

[Usr117063]

What are everyones views on pushing the pedal all the way to the floor? The way its done or a good way to wreck the mc?

 

[ClioPowa]

No, keep going with the engine off a few times until no air or fresh fluid colour comes through.

Some have bled these with the engine running but I've never tried it.

Agreed, but when the pedal goes hard and can't be pushed down any further from it's elevated position, are you meant to start the car to make it functional again?

Or get an Ezi bleed kit if you can as it makes the process so much quicker and easier. You can also do it on your own. Think they are about £15-£20.

Bought one of those, the brake fluid reservoir was too big and none of the supplied caps fitted.

 

[Mbeau]

Really? Is this on a Sport. I have bled brakes on loads of different cars over the years with the kit. The Clio reservoir is a pretty standard size cap. Did you get the genuine Ezi bleed kit? Mine was from Halfords years ago, but they still sell the same kit in there now.

 

[Fletcher]

As above, my ezi bleed kit worked fine with my Clio 172.

 

[Sir_Dave]

As per the posts above, i've used an Ezi bleed kit for the past 10 years on all my cars.

 

[JamesBryan]

Agreed, but when the pedal goes hard and can't be pushed down any further from it's elevated position, are you meant to start the car to make it functional again

Do you mean you can't push down with the bleed nipple open?

 

[Crayola]

What are everyones views on pushing the pedal all the way to the floor? The way its done or a good way to wreck the mc?

Ruins the seals and rolls the square cut seal ripping it

Unless they're brand new seals then they could take it

 

[JamesBryan]

Ruins the seals and rolls the square cut seal ripping it

Unless they're brand new seals then they could take it

I've always done it that way

 

[Crayola]

I've always done it that way

Then don't lol

If the seals are old then they're used to being pushed to a certain amount. Pushing them further and harder puts them under too much stress which can roll them and then they stay rolled over, or it will just rip them to shreds haha. It's like getting my great-grandad into the gym after 30 years of being retired, he'd break something 😂

 

[MRBILLYUK]

Ruins the seals and rolls the square cut seal ripping it

Unless they're brand new seals then they could take it

What are the symptoms if the m/c seals are knackered ?
I've always bled them foot flat to the floor.
I'm still having problems I posted about in December. Bleed the brakes , fine for a couple of weeks then back to long pedal travel. I have to quickly jab the brakes to build up any pressure or the car struggles to stop.

 

[Crayola]

What are the symptoms if the m/c seals are knackered ?
I've always bled them foot flat to the floor.
I'm still having problems I posted about in December. Bleed the brakes , fine for a couple of weeks then back to long pedal travel. I have to quickly jab the brakes to build up any pressure or the car struggles to stop.

Rusty as f**k servo
Pedal always feels spongy

Pull your arch liner back and have a look at the servo, I've not seen a Clio that hasn't needed MC seals yet. You won't see any liquid because they only weep slightly over time, but you'll definitely see the rust

 

[JamesBryan]

Then don't lol

If the seals are old then they're used to being pushed to a certain amount. Pushing them further and harder puts them under too much stress which can roll them and then they stay rolled over, or it will just rip them to shreds haha. It's like getting my great-grandad into the gym after 30 years of being retired, he'd break something 😂

I mostly use a pressure bleeder tbh

 

[MRBILLYUK]

Rusty as f**k servo
Pedal always feels spongy

Pull your arch liner back and have a look at the servo, I've not seen a Clio that hasn't needed MC seals yet. You won't see any liquid because they only weep slightly over time, but you'll definitely see the rust

So if I check and the servo is rusty as f**k , what then?
It's beyond me doing any jobs like that my back and knees are fucked with arthritis. It takes me all my time to change brake discs and pads these days.

I have read that seized rear caliper can cause a problem with spongy brakes ? I had my rear offside changed last year when it failed it's MOT. I've got a new rear nearside caliper ready to fit . How easy/ hard is that with regards to taking the handbrake cable out of the caliper?

Sorry if I've gone slightly off topic.

 

[MRBILLYUK]

Agreed, but when the pedal goes hard and can't be pushed down any further from it's elevated position, are you meant to start the car to make it functional again?



Bought one of those, the brake fluid reservoir was too big and none of the supplied caps fitted.

I had an eezibleed donkeys years ago when I had my 172 , the cap didn't fit so I threw in the back of the garage . I must have binned it some time after cos I can't find it now.

 

[Crayola]

So if I check and the servo is rusty as f**k , what then?
It's beyond me doing any jobs like that my back and knees are fucked with arthritis. It takes me all my time to change brake discs and pads these days.

I have read that seized rear caliper can cause a problem with spongy brakes ? I had my rear offside changed last year when it failed it's MOT. I've got a new rear nearside caliper ready to fit . How easy/ hard is that with regards to taking the handbrake cable out of the caliper?

Sorry if I've gone slightly off topic.

Basically if you see a sizeable amount of rust you'll need to remove the MC and have the seals changed and take the servo off to clean it up otherwise itll just rot and then you wont have any assistance

Rear brakes just cause sticking as the dust boots get crap behind them and the pistons stick. Easiest way to sort that is to completely wind out the pistons and then give them a rub down with some crocus cloth

 

[leedsboy]

I've always done it that way

Me too.

Reckon that's why mine are constantly spongy.

 

[Usr117063]

@YorkshireKyle Youtube screwed me over on this. Plenty of the right information and plenty of the wrong information, all mixed together and hard to distinguish

 

[MRBILLYUK]

Basically if you see a sizeable amount of rust you'll need to remove the MC and have the seals changed and take the servo off to clean it up otherwise itll just rot and then you wont have any assistance

Rear brakes just cause sticking as the dust boots get crap behind them and the pistons stick. Easiest way to sort that is to completely wind out the pistons and then give them a rub down with some crocus cloth

So worse case scenario is the servos fucked and maybe the MC too.
Do I go 2nd hand for the parts? The other problem would be finding a garage that can do it then bleed the system using clip to fire the ABS and get all the air out of the system.
I had a quick look on autodoc/onlinecarparts. All all the MC' s were saying for LH drive vehicles , i guess that's cos they're based in Germany.

As for the rear nearside caliper . I've had it sitting here for a while now so might as well change it as it's 14 years old now and the offsise rear was knackered so the chances are it'll be on its last legs.
Is it easy enough to get the handbrake cable out of the caliper and in the new caliper? I once did one about 20 years ago on my Pug 306 S16 ( basically the same caliper as a 1*2) and can't remember if it was a struggle or not.

The thing that puzzles me is if I bleed the brakes I get a good solid pedal for 2 or 3 weeks then without warning I lose the servo assistance and the pedal just goes flat to the floor and I have to quickly jab the pedal to build up the servo assistance.
Every time I've checked the brake fluid reservoir the level has never dropped not even a couple of mm.

 

[Crayola]

So worse case scenario is the servos fucked and maybe the MC too.
Do I go 2nd hand for the parts? The other problem would be finding a garage that can do it then bleed the system using clip to fire the ABS and get all the air out of the system.
I had a quick look on autodoc/onlinecarparts. All all the MC' s were saying for LH drive vehicles , i guess that's cos they're based in Germany.

As for the rear nearside caliper . I've had it sitting here for a while now so might as well change it as it's 14 years old now and the offsise rear was knackered so the chances are it'll be on its last legs.
Is it easy enough to get the handbrake cable out of the caliper and in the new caliper? I once did one about 20 years ago on my Pug 306 S16 ( basically the same caliper as a 1*2) and can't remember if it was a struggle or not.

The thing that puzzles me is if I bleed the brakes I get a good solid pedal for 2 or 3 weeks then without warning I lose the servo assistance and the pedal just goes flat to the floor and I have to quickly jab the pedal to build up the servo assistance.
Every time I've checked the brake fluid reservoir the level has never dropped not even a couple of mm.

If you can find a decent spare set to clean up while they're out of the car then I'd go for that option

The rear cables aren't too bad, just a bit of WD40 and a couple of taps with a persuader will free them up if they're a bit corroded in there. The left hand side MC are different as the brake routing is the flip of the RHD version so the ports are the opposite side. Check the vacuum line to the servo from the head, they can sometimes melt and when they're warm the rubber may open and close, or at least that's the easiest thing to check for at first. If not then it could be a multitude of other things

 

[MRBILLYUK]

If you can find a decent spare set to clean up while they're out of the car then I'd go for that option

The rear cables aren't too bad, just a bit of WD40 and a couple of taps with a persuader will free them up if they're a bit corroded in there. The left hand side MC are different as the brake routing is the flip of the RHD version so the ports are the opposite side. Check the vacuum line to the servo from the head, they can sometimes melt and when they're warm the rubber may open and close, or at least that's the easiest thing to check for at first. If not then it could be a multitude of other things

Cheers for all the info. Much appreciated I'll keep my eye out for a servo , looked on eBay and there's one that's rusty as f**k.

I'll have a look and see if the pipes melted.
Just got to wait for a dry day and I'll try and sort the caliper out.

 

[Crayola]

Cheers for all the info. Much appreciated I'll keep my eye out for a servo , looked on eBay and there's one that's rusty as f**k.

I'll have a look and see if the pipes melted.
Just got to wait for a dry day and I'll try and sort the caliper out.

Not a problem mate, hopefully you can get it sorted 🙂

 

[Mbeau]

Cheers for all the info. Much appreciated I'll keep my eye out for a servo , looked on eBay and there's one that's rusty as f**k.

I'll have a look and see if the pipes melted.
Just got to wait for a dry day and I'll try and sort the caliper out.

Just remembered I had this. Wire brushed it and just surface rust you can see. Is in really good condition, just needs a proper rub back and paint.

 

[MRBILLYUK]

Just remembered I had this. Wire brushed it and just surface rust you can see. Is in really good condition, just needs a proper rub back and paint.

How much do you want for it?
I've just seen one on eBay with pedals and vacuum pipe for £19.95 delivered.

 

[Mbeau]

How much do you want for it?
I've just seen one on eBay with pedals and vacuum pipe for £19.95 delivered.

Was going to say £20 posted so the one on ebay might be a better buy if it's in good condition.

 

[MRBILLYUK]

Was going to say £20 posted so the one on ebay might be a better buy if it's in good condition.

The one on eBay looks alot rustier than yours , maybe deeper than just surface rust.
I don't suppose you have the master cylinder and reservoir to go with it ?