Blueprinted engine?

[RichMcc]

Found out my old engine is shagged which is a bit of a bummer but now I'm having a new engine from a clio racer fitted and the cup setup, rebuilt box etc etc from my old engine swapped over to the new one.
They said the engines blueprinted and if I mapped it now it would be a flyer. :approve:

Can any of the guru's shed some light on the blueprinting subject, Ive heard of the term a few times but what is it exactly?

 

[Steviant]

Blueprinted engine just means one that was built within the correct tolerances and specification, that all of the engines for the clio cup race cars were.

 

[RichMcc]

So basically its exactly as the engine "should be" and not what ever rolls off the assembly line and lobbed together by renaults?

 

[BenR]

none of the cup engines were 'blueprinted' :S

Renault only make one size of bearing/rings and 3 piston sizes.

 

[BenR]

So basically its exactly as the engine "should be" and not what ever rolls off the assembly line and lobbed together by renaults?

Not by any stretch of the imagination, they all just roll off the assembly line.

 

[RichMcc]

Its not from a cup its a ph1 engine thats been hand built :S

just wondered what blueprinting was and what it involves

 

[Tom]

Unless it has SODEMO written on it i doubt it.

 

[RichMcc]

Dont really was to dispute what the engine is I just wanted to find out what the term involves.

 

[drhowser]

i think blueprinting originally meant basically checking, adjusting and noting all the parts of the engine that were affected by a re-build. now i think any engine which has been opened and looked at tends to get re-sold as a "blueprinted" engine. if anyone knows the correct answer i would say ben is the man to ask though.

 

[bmh.01]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_balance#Blueprinting

 

[Tom]

i think blueprinting originally meant basically checking, adjusting and noting all the parts of the engine that were affected by a re-build. now i think any engine which has been opened and looked at tends to get re-sold as a "blueprinted" engine. if anyone knows the correct answer i would say ben is the man to ask though.

As steve said

Blueprinted engine just means one that was built within the correct tolerances and specification.

LOL!

 

[RichMcc]

Well its been sourced by yozzasport so I have no reason to doubt what their saying, not exactly an unreliable source so its not like some shmuck's labeled it up on eBay or something.
Just wanted to find out more about it, if there are differences compared to a standard lump, what the benefits of it being done were etc

 

[Steviant]

Thank you Tom.

 

[White16valver]

As I understand it, a simple way to explain blueprinting is as follows:

When building an engine, all parts have a tolerance on them, such as +/- 1.5mm or whatever.

When an engine is blueprinted, all the tolerances are the maximum allowed, so you get greater flow wherever possible, get better sealing, and generally produce as much power as it can while still being 'standard'.

I think that's right anyway...

 

[RichMcc]

At last a reasonably tidy answer

When you refer to tolerence do you mean size of the internals?
And flow refering to oil flowing around the parts or over them?

 

[White16valver]

I kind of put that bit in off the top of my head so don't quote me on it LoL

The way I think of it is that the route the air/petrol takes through the engine will be the biggest allowed, therefore more air + more petrol = more power :evil:

 

[RichMcc]

^^ thought that was more flow work, my understanding is its more to do with the internal components, pistons, rods, crank or whatever :S

 

[White16valver]

yeah, that's true I guess lol

BenR needs to explain in simple terms! LoL

 

[BenR]

The original term 'blueprinted' refers to the assembly of an engine to the original blueprint specifications of the initial design. When an engine is mass produced they have tolerances with acceptable limits.

To blueprint in the original sense means to build everything to what the blueprint says, zero tolerance basically.

Nowadays the term is flung around like nothing else, and blueprinted can simply mean an assembled engine.

Performance blueprinting is also used to refer to a rebuild where all tolerances are too the chosen value of the builder (i.e. doesnt have to follow the design blueprint).

When i blueprint an engine it means to my chosen specifications, and all dimentions of all components are logged before and after modification, along with their clearance from both physical checks and calculated from component dimentions.

Ultimately this mean jack all on a renault engine as they only sell one size of anything, so you dont have any scope to change clearances without significant expense and machining.

 

[RichMcc]

Ahhh cheers Ben, interesting!
I'll bug Mr Fred for some more info on the actual engine when he's about later on

In either case it will be a significant improvement over the old engine which was several shades of screwed lol

 

[BenR]

a running engine is always better than one which isnt. lol

 

[RichMcc]

It was running...... like a 100 year old tractor LOL!

 

[Peperami]

So this has come from a cup racer? You getting the sadev box too?

 

[RichMcc]

They said it was out of a clio racer or something along those lines.
No box just the engine, I only just had my box rebuilt anyway!
Sure fred will clarify. Theres nothing special about the engine from what I can gather its standard spec they just said it was hand built and blueprinted so I wondered what that entailed.

 

[Peperami]

Ah ok. To my knowledge blueprinting just means that the rebuild has been done correctly so to speak. Everything has been tested to the correct tolerances, and is running tight and as it should.

 

[RichMcc]

I'll settle for "working" right now hahah!

 

[TheJesus]

you pay extra for this engine then?

how much do Cup engines and boxes go for, I think I'd like a spare to be rebuilt

 

[RichMcc]

I am paying for the engine, I dont know about extra lol
Dont know anything about the boxes sorry

Its not a whole engine either, just the bottom end and head, the rest will be coming off my old one.

 

[TheJesus]

I'm not sure if I should put a 172 Cup engine in mine, or give Andy a nightmare and go for a Megane/Williams one... lol

 

[Peperami]

You taking the tb'd lump out??

 

[ja.jack]

'' Blueprinting'' can be yet one more way for a tuner to con you. They can say that your rebuilt mill has had every component matched and show you a photo of the kitchen scales they did it on lol.

 

[TheJesus]

You taking the tb'd lump out??

yeah only to have more work done though. It's still got a stock head and bottom end on it... in fact the engine itself is completely standard, but I don't know if I should use an F7R as it's a better engine, especially to tune.

And agree with Jim, blueprinting isn't something I'd personally pay for, but if they say it's got that and it's only cost the same as a normal engine, then you cant really go wrong.

 

[RichMcc]

I wouldn't care if it was totally standard tbh because its better than the heap of scrap they just pulled out. I know its very very low miles tho.
They're doing a lot of work for me so they aint gonna con me if anything they're doing me a favour sorting my car out...
I just wanted to know what the term was




^^ thread direction ------------->

 

[Peperami]

I thought as standard the f7r produced far less power than the 4 though? Wouldnt you lose some?

 

[TheJesus]

I thought as standard the f7r produced far less power than the 4 though? Wouldnt you lose some?

yes and no... F7R is 150bhp as quoted by Renault, the 172 is 169bhp as quoted by Renault. Most Williams engines make more than quoted power, anything up to mid 160's, 172 ones usually make a little under their claimed figure...

It's not just that though, it's the characteristics, the Willy engine is stronger low down and has a better more usable power band, the 172 engine is peaky and needs to be worked hard. The other thing is that when you start modding them the F7R responds better and this is what my experience of them is and having spoken in the past to the likes of Andy, Ben and Ric Wood they all said it's a better base. The 172 will end up with a better peak power figure, but that only tells half the story really.

 

[Peperami]

Ah ok. I have no experience of the willy/ megane lumps, only the f4r. What you've said makes sense though.

Didnt you fancy selling the tb'd lump and going for a vag 1.8t lump if the engines coming out? How much are they to buy anyways?

 

[TheJesus]

Nah, I dont really like 4 pot turbo engines, they just pathetically boring (bar the scooby engines with uneven headers). It would probably be more cost effective I suppose for power etc, but I love the noise of ITB's and as I didn't have to pay the initial conversion costs I'm happy to plough the same sort of money into it for headwork and bottom end rebuild and have something different. I'll hopefully then have the quickest NA Clio I know of (running an F4R anyway!).

Audi engine would also mean new tyres every week, but they can be got hold of pretty cheap, iirc Flan paid £600 for his for the Mk1 he built

 

[RichMcc]

 

[Peperami]

Lol, your question has already been answered, back in your cage boy!

 

[RichMcc]

I was hoping fred would pick it up later and shed some more light on the actual engine but I'll chat to him on msn or something.