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Brake fade with decent brake setup?



Tomotek

ClioSport Club Member
Just out of interest, will your braided brake lines be for sale soon at all? I noticed they're on your website under your Clio race car spec page.
While we build our second car we are looking to turn everything we do into a kit to sell to others. I can certainly add brake lines to the list to look at.. so many different options tho.. (just the braided corners, internal hardlines, internal bias kit, ABS, non ABS, cup master cylinder, std master cylinder) starts to get a little tricky. Any ideas are welcome
 

Kev@KAM

ClioSport Trader
  Badass Toyota
Do you have an internal bias adjustor.. my only thinking is I will have moved the bias back from std with our adjustor, and the rear OEM pads cope fine.... if no internal bias adjustment then you effectively do the same thing by changing to a higher friction aftermarket pad... 2 ways to get the same effect.
Standard bias for me. I am on the mindset that the car should remain able to be reverted to standard easily. It is a Trophy so I have to behave :D
 

Martin.

ClioSport Club Member
I run standard Renault stuff on the rear of my track car. Been in there for years and still plenty left.

Standard discs with CL RC6s on the front with good fluid and air cooling. Never had an issue and the previous set lasted me so well, including through a couple of winters road use that I didn't want to try anything else. The only downside is the squeal like a tw*t on the road.
 

Tomotek

ClioSport Club Member
Standard bias for me. I am on the mindset that the car should remain able to be reverted to standard easily. It is a Trophy so I have to behave :D
That would make sense then as they are setup as std to not lock the rears that easily.. so yeah upgraded rear pads would be a benefit to shift some bias to the back while still not locking up.

Haha yeah, needs to keep its value still
 

McGherkin

ClioSport Club Member
I was under the belief that 172 Cups are locked to approx 77-23% because there's no ABS to stop the rears locking under braking when the car is empty. ABS cars can run a higher rear effort but only when there is weight in the back to keep the tyres pressed down.

Hence the suggestions that the rear brakes should be left stock, but it applies more to track cars than road cars, because track cars are even lighter at the back and often don't have ABS. You certainly see a LOT of clio race cars (particularly rally cars for some reason) pirouetting under braking and that is presumably because the owners have disabled the ABS but not done anything to reduce the rear effort.

In answer to the OP though, cooling cooling cooling.
 

Crazylegs

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182
While we build our second car we are looking to turn everything we do into a kit to sell to others. I can certainly add brake lines to the list to look at.. so many different options tho.. (just the braided corners, internal hardlines, internal bias kit, ABS, non ABS, cup master cylinder, std master cylinder) starts to get a little tricky. Any ideas are welcome
Thanks mate, I think you'd have a few buyers for sure.
 

Tehxman116

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 2 RS172 Cup
Okay so reporting back! Had the Donington evening session today. Fitted Brembo HC blank discs, PBS rear pads (Brakes were bedded in properly before track time) and fresh Millers 300+ brake fluid. All calipers were checked and work perfectly. Brake ducts aim right at the discs and are pretty close.

Air temp was around 35 degrees so pretty hot. Brakes simply weren't up to the task at all. Max 3 fast laps and they started fading. It's definitely the front pads giving up. I'll be changing to something else before my next track day
 

plenty

ClioSport Club Member
Air temp was around 35 degrees so pretty hot. Brakes simply weren't up to the task at all. Max 3 fast laps and they started fading. It's definitely the front pads giving up. I'll be changing to something else before my next track day
PBS front pads are the weak link.
 

green

ClioSport Club Member
  Hi comp phase 1
The best setup I’ve tried for standard was RC6 front pads... Tarox 2000 vented disc front... standard disc rear with RC5 pads.... ducting to wheel well and RBF 600 brake fluid.
That setup can do half hour stints with 0 fade.

I’ve now gone with the brembo 4 pot setup with ds1.11 pads.and 2 piece vented discs..it’s still not as good as the standard setup. The pads have worn well but it’ll be RC6 pads for the Brembo’s next
 

plenty

ClioSport Club Member
RC6 are great pads but run extremely hot, hotter than most pads, meaning ducts are essential and even then there's a risk of boiling the fluid.

I've had good success so far with standard brakes, DS1.11 front and DS2500 rears, good fluid and removing the front arch liners.
 

Hollidog

ClioSport Club Member
  182
The best setup I’ve tried for standard was RC6 front pads... Tarox 2000 vented disc front... standard disc rear with RC5 pads.... ducting to wheel well and RBF 600 brake fluid.
That setup can do half hour stints with 0 fade.

I’ve now gone with the brembo 4 pot setup with ds1.11 pads.and 2 piece vented discs..it’s still not as good as the standard setup. The pads have worn well but it’ll be RC6 pads for the Brembo’s next
Do you think the 4pots are worth it? I need to get my calipers refurbed anyway and I was looking at going to 4pot. I've heard mixed reviews some saying its not worth all the hassle and expense. I'm also on 15" oz so I think I would need to have them machined as well.
 

Crazylegs

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182
What is good for a road car apart from DS2500, anything else suitable or are they about the best you can get?
 

frayz

ClioSport Club Member
What is good for a road car apart from DS2500, anything else suitable or are they about the best you can get?
Personally, i hate 2500s with a passion. I use Pagid RS29 front and RS4-2 rear. Daily driven and nothing but great breaking performance with no issues.
Work from cold, get better with temp, great disc & pad life. Only downside is theyre dusty and a bit expensive.
 

Kev@KAM

ClioSport Trader
  Badass Toyota
Personally, i hate 2500s with a passion. I use Pagid RS29 front and RS4-2 rear. Daily driven and nothing but great breaking performance with no issues.
Work from cold, get better with temp, great disc & pad life. Only downside is theyre dusty and a bit expensive.
You spend 99% more than 99% of Clio owners lol
DS2500 and even Mintex M1144 are a little dead on the pedal but they work well enough. I think I may swap out for PBS pads for road use to see if they work better for me before I go full bore with track pads and suspension
 

frayz

ClioSport Club Member
You spend 99% more than 99% of Clio owners lol
DS2500 and even Mintex M1144 are a little dead on the pedal but they work well enough. I think I may swap out for PBS pads for road use to see if they work better for me before I go full bore with track pads and suspension
I dunno what to say to that. So what percentage does that put me in? 🤷‍♂️:p
 

Kev@KAM

ClioSport Trader
  Badass Toyota
Okay so reporting back! Had the Donington evening session today. Fitted Brembo HC blank discs, PBS rear pads (Brakes were bedded in properly before track time) and fresh Millers 300+ brake fluid. All calipers were checked and work perfectly. Brake ducts aim right at the discs and are pretty close.

Air temp was around 35 degrees so pretty hot. Brakes simply weren't up to the task at all. Max 3 fast laps and they started fading. It's definitely the front pads giving up. I'll be changing to something else before my next track day
This time of year is the hardest on brakes. Spend some money. Move to a proper pad compound. Try Winmax W6 - its not cheap but similar price to DS1.11 but with more bite.
 

Kev@KAM

ClioSport Trader
  Badass Toyota
RC6 are great pads but run extremely hot, hotter than most pads, meaning ducts are essential and even then there's a risk of boiling the fluid.

I've had good success so far with standard brakes, DS1.11 front and DS2500 rears, good fluid and removing the front arch liners.
Metallic pads conduct heat into the caliper piston more than ceramic. This is the trade off to some extent for better bite and modulation the metallic compounds give.
This is not an issue solely with CL but Winmax, Pagid and all the other higher end manufacturers using metallic blends in the top race pads.
You can get titanium shims as well as other types of heat shielding plates. It keeps heat in the pad (which is ok as metallic pads cope with higher temps better)
Personally, i hate 2500s with a passion. I use Pagid RS29 front and RS4-2 rear. Daily driven and nothing but great breaking performance with no issues.
Work from cold, get better with temp, great disc & pad life. Only downside is theyre dusty and a bit expensive.
Its easiest to follow the crowd but always better to forge your own path. You learn more :D
 

plenty

ClioSport Club Member
Metallic pads conduct heat into the caliper piston more than ceramic. This is the trade off to some extent for better bite and modulation the metallic compounds give.
Indeed but RC6 is particularly bad for this IME. I've run other sintered compounds such as Carbotech and RC6 runs hotter than any them and hotter than other CL compounds such as RC5+.

I would recommend Carbotech XP10 over RC6 - very similar performance and pedal feel, but much better heat management and durability (RC6s don't last long).
 

frayz

ClioSport Club Member
Indeed but RC6 is particularly bad for this IME. I've run other sintered compounds such as Carbotech and RC6 runs hotter than any them and hotter than other CL compounds such as RC5+.

I would recommend Carbotech XP10 over RC6 - very similar performance and pedal feel, but much better heat management and durability (RC6s don't last long).
In addition to that , Ian at Carbotech is super helpful. :)
 

Kev@KAM

ClioSport Trader
  Badass Toyota
Indeed but RC6 is particularly bad for this IME. I've run other sintered compounds such as Carbotech and RC6 runs hotter than any them and hotter than other CL compounds such as RC5+.

I would recommend Carbotech XP10 over RC6 - very similar performance and pedal feel, but much better heat management and durability (RC6s don't last long).
I think this is the difference in conduction of heat between a sintered metal pad (100% metal) and metallic composite (a blend with other materials)
 

green

ClioSport Club Member
  Hi comp phase 1
@Hollidog. I did the change to the 4 pots for looks and a bit of weight saving. The Brembo’s are good, the brake peddle is a bit longer on the ph1 so I’ve got a master cylinder from a 197 that I’ve got to fit to try and shorten the peddle. I thought I’d try the ds1:11 pad as they have great reviews. They are ok and don’t over heat but I don’t think they have the bite of the RC6 but I’ll see after I’ve changed the master cylinder.
If you have spare cash then they are worth it. I’m running 15” wheels as well so had them machined 5mm.
 

Ph1 Tom

ClioSport Club Member
My old ph1 172 track car I had
283x26mm 2 piece front rotors
4 pot Brembo callipers
RC5+ pads
ABS delete with Mondeo mk1 bias valves off the master cylinder
Cup master cylinder
And the rear pads were ds2500 iirc

Balance was perfect. And I'll be going down the same route on the next build except I've got DS1.11 pads in the callipers I took off my old Megane.

Also worth noting I could hammer it all day and the brakes wouldn't let up, no fade no matter how long the session.
 

stebat

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172
I’m just about to order some blue stuff as I haven’t seen many comments on them so thought I’d give them I go. I’ll report back when test, not till September now though 😔
Shite by the way!!
 

stebat

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172
That was me and that’s my review! 3 laps they lasted with decent bite!! After that I thought I had air in the system. Bled it twice, no air! Just shite pads spongey as hell
 

Hyperhatch

ClioSport Club Member
  182
Im not sure yet.. still working through the caliper side of the kit as what I made for ours isnt really cost effective to batch produce... not likely this side of christmas though
How about the splitter/spoiler? Will they be available after the brake ducts? I don’t mind running a test set if you need to trial them on a silver car.........😉😂
 


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