Brake Fluid + Brake Pipes

[JamieG]

Guys,

Been to a track day today and after about 6/7 laps, my brakes suffer from alot of fade and started locking up with ease (and thats not because its a cup either).

Will be gain anything from putting dot 5.1 fluid in? And i hear about a different style of pipes, what advantages would this offer? I would also plan on changing pads over to either Mintex M1144's or Ferodo DS2500 at the same time too.

Where would be the best place to buy such parts also?

Regards,
Jamie

 

[TimR26]

I run dot 4 without any isues so probably more to do with the pads/discs your running.

 

[JamieG]

Discs are fine, they are Brembo HC's, pads admittedly were Green Stuff, but when i come to replacing them i want the best and want good performance out of them, and am prepared to replace other components at the same time, if its going to be worthwhile.

Would braided/SS pipes aid at all?

 

[TimR26]

You can get braided lines for 50 quid so might as well. Some DS2500s, decent fluid and braided lines will make a big difference.

 

[mr.valver]

Stuck Motul 5.1 brake fluid, brembo HC's Mintex M1155's with HEL Braided lines on my cup a few weeks back, I can now do Endo's in the thing!! Takes some getting used to!!

 

[vRSy]

Stuck Motul 5.1 brake fluid, brembo HC's Mintex M1155's with HEL Braided lines on my cup a few weeks back, I can now do Endo's in the thing!! Takes some getting used to!!

new to the clio thing. just planning my mods before i get the car.

brake wise i was considering 4 pots. but if the standard calipers are good for track work provided you sort the pads and brake lines id stick with that.

I cooked the brakes on my vRS at the ring in 3 laps.

how do they cope with repeated laps at a track day??

 

[Damo_Sport]

mine is on standard pads and fluid...

i got a trackday in april.. i plan to take it easy.. if im on track for 20 mins il give it a 20 min cooldown.. thats my plan anyways

 

[edewer]

Have got the HEL braided lines and ATE Dot 4 race fluid, teamed with Brembo HCs and Ferodo extra steel pads. did a full day at bedford, and the pedal stayed firm all day, with no brake fade, whereas the standard kit would have died very early on.

Think Ben (Nero) was runing uprated discs but standard fluid and lines and he had some issues during the course of the day with them getting a little too hot

 

[Jonny1*2]

Discs are fine, they are Brembo HC's, pads admittedly were Green Stuff, but when i come to replacing them i want the best and want good performance out of them, and am prepared to replace other components at the same time, if its going to be worthwhile.

Would braided/SS pipes aid at all?

There's your problem mate. Not the best pads to be honest. Get some braided lines, castrol super dot 4, discs you have are fine. Ferodo pads are good, although I was speaking to someone who said they leave a residue on the discs (which I've noticed recently), so maybe try carbon lorraine rc5+.

Also, it might be down to your braking technique. If you're locking up during fade then you must be HEAVY braking. Fade should be just that really. Soft pedal, feels like the brakes aren't working etc. You could try braking softer for longer and see if this makes a difference.

Prepare for your pockets to get a little lighter

 

[Jonny1*2]

new to the clio thing. just planning my mods before i get the car.

brake wise i was considering 4 pots. but if the standard calipers are good for track work provided you sort the pads and brake lines id stick with that.

I cooked the brakes on my vRS at the ring in 3 laps.

how do they cope with repeated laps at a track day??

To be fare, that's about 40min worth of driving, so you would expect them to be fubard. Presume you ran the 4 pots on that, but the standard pads probably weren't great.

mine is on standard pads and fluid...

i got a trackday in april.. i plan to take it easy.. if im on track for 20 mins il give it a 20 min cooldown.. thats my plan anyways

The standard ones just need maintaining on the day really. Don't brake to hard with them or fade will happen quickly (4-5 laps). Make sure you do a cool down lap and don't apply the hand brake in the pits! You'll be fine though. Which track you doing?

 

[Munson]

Fluid won't affect brake fade. To stop fade you need uprated pads/cooling. Depending on many factors, these may result in you boiling your fluid. Uprated pads will often shift the weakest link to the fluid.

Fade is when the pedal is firm but you can't stop. Boiling fluid is when the pedal goes soft and heads for the floor (much more scary).

 

[Damo_Sport]

To be fare, that's about 40min worth of driving, so you would expect them to be fubard. Presume you ran the 4 pots on that, but the standard pads probably weren't great.



The standard ones just need maintaining on the day really. Don't brake to hard with them or fade will happen quickly (4-5 laps). Make sure you do a cool down lap and don't apply the hand brake in the pits! You'll be fine though. Which track you doing?

llandow mate

 

[Jonny1*2]

Fluid won't affect brake fade. To stop fade you need uprated pads/cooling. Depending on many factors, these may result in you boiling your fluid. Uprated pads will often shift the weakest link to the fluid.

Fade is when the pedal is firm but you can't stop. Boiling fluid is when the pedal goes soft and heads for the floor (much more scary).

Mine never went hard when I got fade :S so maybe it wasn't fade. Similar scenario though.

 

[Munson]

I meant the pedal stays firm but braking efficiency falls away. Like no matter how hard you press the pedal, you can't stop. Boiling fluid is a completely different ballgame. You'll be hard on the pedal in the braking zone, slowing down rapidly, then almost instantly the pedal squishes down to the floor.

Uprated/fresh fluid won't stop brake fade, but it will reduce the likelihood of boiling once uprated pads are fitted to stop fade. If that makes sense. A ran Carbon Lorraine pads and boiled Castrol SRF. Albeit contaminated I think. Bled some off and ripped my fogs and liners out, and was able to stay out pretty much indefinitely as far as brakes were concerned

 

[Aron]

Green stuff is your main issue. Personaly i found them terrible. Lasted 10minutes around Rockingham before melting. The brembo HC discs are OK so you can afford to leave them. I have seen mixed reviews on the DS2500's in regards to track use, mainly they do not cope with high heat very well.

The cup cars proved standard calipers can deal with track use with the correct setup. PF97 pads in the standard calipers are very good. I ran the Brembo HC discs with Pagid Rs4-2's, AP 5.1 and they were very good. Coped fine with the first 6 laps around the nurburgring, fluid boiled in the next 2 but nothing major.

I have now changed to 4pots and i couldnt tell you what my reasons where it was just a personal preference. More interested in finding out how they compare to standards.

 

[Jonny1*2]

I meant the pedal stays firm but braking efficiency falls away. Like no matter how hard you press the pedal, you can't stop. Boiling fluid is a completely different ballgame. You'll be hard on the pedal in the braking zone, slowing down rapidly, then almost instantly the pedal squishes down to the floor.

Uprated/fresh fluid won't stop brake fade, but it will reduce the likelihood of boiling once uprated pads are fitted to stop fade. If that makes sense. A ran Carbon Lorraine pads and boiled Castrol SRF. Albeit contaminated I think. Bled some off and ripped my fogs and liners out, and was able to stay out pretty much indefinitely as far as brakes were concerned

At which point you grab your balls and pray. :S Fluid is going to boil relatively quickly unless you get some brake cafs in there really. Not sure if braided lines help much with this as they will conduct heat more than the standard rubber coated ones.

 

[Munson]

I think The Rock was designed by someone with shares in a brake company TBH.

 

[Jonny1*2]

lol

 

[Kam.]

There's your problem mate. Not the best pads to be honest. Get some braided lines, castrol super dot 4, discs you have are fine. Ferodo pads are good, although I was speaking to someone who said they leave a residue on the discs (which I've noticed recently), so maybe try carbon lorraine rc5+.

I agree the Green stuff pads will certainly be the problem. You will not get any brake fade from the CL Brakes RC5+ and it won't leave any material on the discs.. If you are having trouble with brake fluid boiling on track; the CL Brakes fluid has the highest dry boiling point I've seen (617ºF), even higher than the Castrol SRF (590ºF)..

 

[JamieG]

Tbh, i did expect the main problem to be the pads - i haven't really rated them whilst i've had the car, i had Mintex 1144's on my last car, and they was superb.

Right where is the best place to get carbon lorraine pads from? And where can i get the fluid from?

Will upgrading brake lines be worthwhile?

 

[Kam.]

Tbh, i did expect the main problem to be the pads - i haven't really rated them whilst i've had the car, i had Mintex 1144's on my last car, and they was superb.

Right where is the best place to get carbon lorraine pads from? And where can i get the fluid from?

Will upgrading brake lines be worthwhile?

you can get them cheap through us..

CL Brakes RC5+ pads:
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/index.ph...5-brake-pads-renault-clio-mk2-rs-172-182.html

CL Brakes dot4 brake fluid:
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/index.php/cl-brakes-dot-4-racing-brake-fluid.html

Brake lines will certainly give you more progressive pedal feel. Worthwhile in my opinion

 

[JamieG]

Can you supply them also? If not, reccomend anywhere i can?

 

[Kam.]

Can you supply them also? If not, reccomend anywhere i can?

yep we can supply those also. just getting on the Hel Performance ones at the moment. They have stainless fittings as standard so are fantastic value for money..
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/index.ph...eel-braided-brake-lines-choice-of-colour.html

I've got a few colours for the coatings on so far and am just working through the rest now..

 

[JamieG]

Expect an order within the next few days then.

Would i be able to get discount if i bought, pads, fluid & pipes at once?!

Jamie

 

[Kam.]

Expect an order within the next few days then.

Would i be able to get discount if i bought, pads, fluid & pipes at once?!

Jamie

yeah we can sort something out discount wise for that - PM me and can discuss details..

 

[bearne1]

About to get some braided lines, HC discs and DS2500 pads, hopefully this thing might want to stop. Standard brakes seem to be dreadful!

 

[JamieG]

In the end i got some HEL lines, SRF Fluid, Brembo HC Discs and Pagid RS Blues, provide everything that the previous set up didn't