Cams...Yay or Nay?

[DJC1980]

Right guys,

I performed several searches and found lots of info on cams.Im based in Ireland so was swaying towards the ktec catcam package and renflash but doing a search it looks like im best off avoiding the renflash route.

My car(172 cup) already has the following,

BC coilovers
full suspension refresh(new wishbones/balljoints/track rods etc etc)
brembo hc's
braided lines
vibra technics engine mounts
powerflex dogbone mount
Yokohama ado8's on clio willams rims


So she has a good platform to go on.

Question is are cams worth it? Are people who went down the 421/438 route impressed by them?

I know it wont change the car completely but id imagine it makes for a quite fun and quick car as I already believe them to be.At the moment I do find that id like more up the top end as it fairly runs out of steam too quick.


So please convince me to part with my hard earned cash as im itching to improve my beloved clio

 

[cliokid182]

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?706136-to-cam-or-not-to-cam-yes-that-question-again

 

[Chip-mk1]

If you end up paying over a grand for a set including fitting and mapping, IMHO its a lot of money for not a lot of gain on a car thats only worth that in the first place.

BUT if you just love your car and want it a bit better and sod the money, then yeah they do make a difference you will notice.

 

[scaryopa]

Agreed with chip tbh, if you want to have the car a bit better and more fun then do it, if you are considering it then you must be prepared to part with your money. Just had cams fitted to mine on Thursday gone and it has made a big differance, not to peak figures but to the way it drives, its so much smoother and keeps going all the way to 7.5k rpm, has actually made the car alot more fun to drive, obvs it does have more power aswell but its how it puts it down.

As for the Cams your wanting i have no clue how they differ to the piper ones i have apart from i know mine are regrinds, i know some are more or less agressive than others but someone with some knowledge would have to tell you specifically.

 

[mikes86]

I've had 438's for just under a year now, decided to get then when my cambelt needed replacing. I would agree with most of what scaryopa said, the engine now pulls hard all the way to 7.5k where as before it used to struggle above 6.5k. I wouldn't say i noticed a "big difference" however, especially in terms of acceleration difference. It's not until you start ripping through the gears you notice torque has improved throughout the RPM range, and just the overall driveability of the car has improved. If you are expecting any noticeable difference in acceleration, look elsewhere, i.e. ITB's.

 

[Kelv]

Chip, as you are considerably more knowledgeable than myself on cam profiles and mapping requirements...
how do you think 197 cams would fair along side ITB's, or would you suggest sticking with standard over 197's with ITB's?
or just say sod it, and go for a much wilder profile?

​i don't think I'm aware of any ITB cars running on 197 cams as yet.

 

[scaryopa]

I've had 438's for just under a year now, decided to get then when my cambelt needed replacing. I would agree with most of what scaryopa said, the engine now pulls hard all the way to 7.5k where as before it used to struggle above 6.5k. I wouldn't say i noticed a "big difference" however, especially in terms of acceleration difference. It's not until you start ripping through the gears you notice torque has improved throughout the RPM range, and just the overall driveability of the car has improved. If you are expecting any noticeable difference in acceleration, look elsewhere, i.e. ITB's.

Totally agree with everything you have said, massive gains arnt what cams do, but id stick with saying a big differance to the car, not speed wise at all tbh, but makes it so much more driveable, i gained a good amount of torque but not much bhp as it was running good bhp anyways, which is perfect in my view.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Chip, as you are considerably more knowledgeable than myself on cam profiles and mapping requirements...
how do you think 197 cams would fair along side ITB's, or would you suggest sticking with standard over 197's with ITB's?
or just say sod it, and go for a much wilder profile?

​i don't think I'm aware of any ITB cars running on 197 cams as yet.

I would say go for much hotter ones mate if you have bodies, the difference is going to be 10bhp or so. So well worth a few hundred quid when you have just spent a couple of grand to get 20bhp in the first place.

 

[stephen chadwick]

I would say go for much hotter ones mate if you have bodies, the difference is going to be 10bhp or so. So well worth a few hundred quid when you have just spent a couple of grand to get 20bhp in the first place.

when fitting cams should you also do the rod bolts?

 

[Dan519]

when fitting cams should you also do the rod bolts?

it's a nice thing to do, but not a hard and fast rule. If you like using revs then yes get the rod bolts done.

 

[dmallett]

Ive had two cammed engines and would agree with what is said in this thread.

My current clio has 421's and they do make a massive difference however im now starting to build up a ph1 and i wont be putting the cammed engine in it as I dont see the gains worthy for what i use the car for.

 

[stephen chadwick]

im only debating it as my cambelt needs doing and looks like iv got an oil leak from the sump gasket so its all got to come off anyway

 

[Dan519]

im only debating it as my cambelt needs doing and looks like iv got an oil leak from the sump gasket so its all got to come off anyway

I'd say definitely fit ARPs if the sump is off. Be a waste not to

 

[Dan519]

Ive had two cammed engines and would agree with what is said in this thread.

My current clio has 421's and they do make a massive difference however im now starting to build up a ph1 and i wont be putting the cammed engine in it as I dont see the gains worthy for what i use the car for.

you're WEIRD. That engine is epic. I might make you sell it back to me

 

[dmallett]

you're WEIRD. That engine is epic. I might make you sell it back to me

Weird? I call it forward thinking Engine will be up for sale end of the month if you want it!

OH and ARP bolts are a must also IMO.

 

[dmallett]

Here is a video of my 421'd clio.


And here is a video of my GT Cammed ph1.




The 421's make a bigger improvment imo, bear in mind that the ph1 weighed 910kg and the ph2 isnt far off standard weight.
And yes both videos are s**t but its pretty hard to drive when theres a camera in front of your dials :rasp:

 

[Fletcher]

I've now decided against cams, in my standard engine. However If I was to build a forged engine, then I would fit some aggressive cams/ITBs.

 

[mitch1503]

Yes if you can live with the gains for the money then go for it, I had Piper's fitted a few months back on my high miler and I think it's made the car better 2 drive and quicker when your going through the gears, mine was a fairly quick 1 to begin with

Dmallett pm me info on price, mine needs a rebuild soon ideally as it's 140k lump and this would be easier as it's a straight swap

 

[DJC1980]

Thanks for the replies guys.Im definitely going the cam route.