CAT cam 422 VVT/non VVT

[ben_p]

Cat list two cams for the F4R in 422 spec.

One keeps the VVT and one looses it.

Could I just rid of the VVT pulley and fit a exhaust pulley in its place? Or if you removed the VVT would you need to play with timing outside of the standard position?

info

clearance [cl] 0.00mm 0.00mm
duration [0.1mm+cl] 284° 276°
duration [1.0mm+cl] 247° 239°
valve lift [cl=0] 11.25mm 11.25mm
cam lift 5.70mm 5.70mm
peak angle 104° 104° followers: O.E.M.
timing [1.0mm+cl] 20/47° 43/16° retainers: O.E.M.
lift at TDC [cl=0] 3.40mm 2.85mm springs: PAC-E99862

information & important remarks:
# ! [link] spring info for Renault Clio 2.0L 16v RS
# to use double spring [ref.PAC-D92009] on retainer [ref. 99388]:
remove O.E.M. valve seal and use flat shim to adjust fitted spring length
# The original intake camshaft is equipped with a VVT (vanos) system. Catcams can supply this camshaft
1/ for use with VVT system (similar to original intake camshaft)
-> 55024xx (hydro) / 55025xx (mech)
2/ for use without VVT system an adjustable pulley ref. CTRE006 (similar to exhaust camshaft)
-> 55034xx (hydro) / 55035xx (mech)
IMPORTANT:
- the timing data are shown for use without VVT system and fixed pulley
- when ordering, please indicate the type of intake cam you need by using the correct partnumber code
# ONLY for use in race engines with adjustable engine management or carburettors.

 

[ben_p]

also, peoples thoughts on 423?

clearance [cl] 0.00mm 0.00mm
duration [0.1mm+cl] 292° 284°
duration [1.0mm+cl] 255° 247°
valve lift [cl=0] 11.25mm 11.25mm REQUIRED PARTS
cam lift 5.70mm 5.70mm
peak angle 104° 104° followers: O.E.M.
timing [1.0mm+cl] 24/51° 47/20° retainers: O.E.M.
lift at TDC [cl=0] 3.95mm 3.40mm springs: PAC-E99862

information & important remarks:
# ! [link] spring info for Renault Clio 2.0L 16v RS
# to use double spring [ref.PAC-D92009] on retainer [ref. 99388]:
remove O.E.M. valve seal and use flat shim to adjust fitted spring length
# The original intake camshaft is equipped with a VVT (vanos) system. Catcams can supply this camshaft
1/ for use with VVT system (similar to original intake camshaft)
-> 55024xx (hydro) / 55025xx (mech)
2/ for use without VVT system an adjustable pulley ref. CTRE006 (similar to exhaust camshaft)
-> 55034xx (hydro) / 55035xx (mech)

 

[ben_p]

engine isnt OEM compression

Im using woosner 12:8:1

 

[Toxic#66]

Best to buy adjustable pulleys (also offered by CatCams) to tune this setup more accurately

 

[ben_p]

hmmm cost though! Can get the cams for £540 and i already have the CAT springs here (and a exhaust pully) lol

 

[ben_p]

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2374

£200, for that much i may as well live with the VVT, Just dont want it too kiss my nice pistons lol.

Plus if I got rid of the VVT its one less sensor to piss about with on my new loom! As the Renault ECU is now/will be completely removed

 

[Toxic#66]

I'm not sure You can bolt the exhaust one on the intake cam, but if You want the extra power it will be best to invest in such thing. Question is if You have the money and someone that will spend the RR time to adjust it properly

 

[sideways danny]

in an ideal world adjustable pulleys are best (and lighter too) but you can use an exhaust pulley. Stock timing works well anyhow you have to use the non vvt cams though, they ARE different. Remember to use the the right cam seal (same as exhaust side) on the inlet cam if you go for VVT delete

 

[Toxic#66]

I think You need to take this decision when ordering cams ? You can't do no VVT with VVT cams.

 

[ben_p]

Yeah i need to decide now, is there any performance loss with VVT delete?

 

[ben_p]

with no adjustable pulleys ^

 

[Toxic#66]

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2374

£200, for that much i may as well live with the VVT, Just dont want it too kiss my nice pistons lol.

Plus if I got rid of the VVT its one less sensor to piss about with on my new loom! As the Renault ECU is now/will be completely removed

Check CatCams prices, last time I've checked it was something about 100£

 

[ben_p]

each? or for the pair?

 

[sideways danny]

certainly nothing lost, the changeover is about 1600rpm anyway. it's an idle improving feature more than anything, but with ITBs a nice idle is very easy.

edit, without adjustable pulleys, you lose the ability to fine tune the cam timing so there's potential to make gains, but they're small. Can always upgrade later if you use renault pulleys to start with

 

[ben_p]

sweet, Non VVT it is then it seems!

423 not worth it?

 

[cliosportap]

what is the advantage of using non vvt cams with adjustable pulleys and disable vvt
also i think if you dont use adjustable ones may be you can lose gain

 

[Toxic#66]

I'm not sure You need a pair :/ Someone more qualified will probably answer this shortly

 

[sideways danny]

sweet, Non VVT it is then it seems!

423 not worth it?

not tried 423s in an engine, but I think they'll push peak power higher up the revs, and we'd need solid lifters to do that. We've been considering them, have to see what the other changes we've made do first though.

 

[ben_p]

cat seem to think you can run them on hydro's but i think hydro's start jumping about at 8k so it would be close.

Im using OEM rods too, so i wouldn't want to push past 7750 - 7800 rpm

 

[cliosportap]

i know when vvt works it opens the intake cam 16 degrees more
and when it doesnt work it closes the system
may be the non vvt system is constant open till idling
so i think you need a pair of adjustable pulley to get the max gain

 

[ben_p]

Hmm, anyother imput.

think it will just be worth sticking with the VVT

 

[ben_p]

Cat said to drop the the VVT and run a exhaust pulley (if i dont want to buy there adjustable pulley)

They sell a kit to adjust the timing on that setup too if i have too!

 

[ben_p]

need to find a exhasut pulley :/

 

[172bagss2]

need to find a exhasut pulley :/

Shall i check in my garage?

 

[ben_p]

flol! you will have one (for free)

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

i'm running 422's on vanos. Interested in the setting standard pulleys in the same way as adjustable pulleys if you have more info. Suppose i could bring my vanos at 400 rpm so on all the time like deleted ones. I'd say 423's would be too much for standard rods, i'm running forged and high comp pistons and i peak at around 7500
Daz

 

[ben_p]

Do you get any kissing when vanos has advanced? Was there any reason you didn't run vanos delete?

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Do you get any kissing when vanos has advanced? Was there any reason you didn't run vanos delete?

No piston contact as far as i'm aware, been going 18 months now. I kept the vanos because i was advised to by GDI for the idle and emmisions.

 

[ben_p]

Ahhh ok cool. What power and torque did you make?

 

[cliosportap]

my max rev is 8300 so dont be afraid for reving
asspecially on non vvt

 

[ben_p]

Standard rods and lifters?

 

[cliosportap]

yes
while i made superchips remap
i said to the mechanic rise it to 8300
and you know life changes after 8000

but i must say that after 8000 there is sure a risk on lifters and rocker arms but not much

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

yes
while i made superchips remap
i said to the mechanic rise it to 8300
and you know life changes after 8000

but i must say that after 8000 there is sure a risk on lifters and rocker arms but not much

I'm suprised your engine is still under the bonnet! you risk standard rods breaking at 7.5k and lifters break around 8.2k
Unless you are running race spec cams, why rev so high, you won't be making any more power past about 7.5k it's not a vtec honda engine you know

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Ahhh ok cool. What power and torque did you make?

It was RR'd at 233/177 but now has 182 manifold, delete sportscat and new 2.5 exhaust, delete pas.
was RR'd recently at 211, but air fuel ratio was not good so need it mapped again. There's potentally 240 horses there when it all goes spot on

 

[cliosportap]

I'm suprised your engine is still under the bonnet! you risk standard rods breaking at 7.5k and lifters break around 8.2k
Unless you are running race spec cams, why rev so high, you won't be making any more power past about 7.5k it's not a vtec honda engine you know

yes you are wright mate for the risk
but you know when you shift 7000-7400 your rev falls down much and you start from the begining in the next gear
although at 8000s you lose gain when you shift aprox. that rev, you get an advantage in the next gear
and ican say that is so much, i have tested it with different car

in turkey the rs parts are very very expensive and you cant find the spare parts because there are only 40-50 rs's
but the risk of reving much is not so much risk for you
because you can find any parts in uk

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

yes you are wright mate for the risk
but you know when you shift 7000-7400 your rev falls down much and you start from the begining in the next gear
although at 8000s you lose gain when you shift aprox. that rev, you get an advantage in the next gear
and ican say that is so much, i have tested it with different car

in turkey the rs parts are very very expensive and you cant find the spare parts because there are only 40-50 rs's
but the risk of reving much is not so much risk for you
because you can find any parts in uk

i do agree with you, but with standard parts you are so risking your engine and there will be 1 less RS in Turkey

 

[cliosportap]

i do agree with you, but with standard parts you are so risking your engine and there will be 1 less RS in Turkey

thats why in normal life i am using it very slowly and dont pass 4500
but sometimes when i need power i see the 8300's
otherwise we cant see a rs again

 

[Fred@BTM]

^get the rod bolts changed for ARP as soon as possible! they're a weak point

 

[cliosportap]

^get the rod bolts changed for ARP as soon as possible! they're a weak point

this is a very hard job
but you are wright
in a period of 3-4 mounts 2 rs breaked the rods here

 

[ben_p]

think 423s are pushing it?