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LOL - all depends on the condition of your 16v! Personally my 16v could really do with having its suspension changed all over. Its still running on its standard setup with 80k on the clock! Even with the standard setup and its hard life (since i took ownership of it
) it still corners well. Tho maybe not as good as it could if i was to renew anti roll bushes, springs & shocks.Ive decided after this month is up im buying Coilovers (providing i get my bonus) but you dont need coilovers to make it corner well - just keep it well looked after. Dont mean to be rude, but if you feel your clio is not holding the road as good as it should be it maybe becuase your neglecting things that matter.
_Tom
ClioSport Club Member
Mines a 1995 with 96k. Its had new bushes and springs not long ago but thats it. It handles ok, just not the best!
For example: The same roundabout that my car loses the back a 55mph my bros golf holds at 75! (Its a big roundabout by the way!)
Maybe its just mine!
Has anyone else driven cars of the same league thatseem to handle better?
If your loosing the back then youve got major issues. A french FWD hatch should never oversteer unless the driver is complete tw*t and doesnt know how to drive.
You should gess mass understeer before loosing the back end, or......... you are lifting of the gas round corners (not a good idea unless you know what your doing) The backend shouldnt be stepping out unless theres something wrong.
Is your car lowered? This is a common issue with people how deck there cars with no idea on how suspension geometry works - usually making there cars corner worse then what it would do if they left it std.
_Tom
ClioSport Club Member
Well i hope i aint a sh*te driver! In mine you have to let off the gas otherwise id lose it and crash! It has been lowered and it was done professionally so hopefully ok. It handles better than when it was standard anyways! Im hopefully gunna be gettin coilovers too soon so that might help!
Its all fours that seem to slide on mine really. Might get it all refreshed when i get my coilovers.
It maybe the way your going into the corners - i always find slowing down before the corner in advanced then flooring it round gives you best results - otherwise youll be braking into the corner becuase of the speed your carrying causing the car to slide forward. This maybe why your having problems, and as already said your tyres can have a knock on effect so make sure you got decent rubber on all 4.
FK coilovers seem to be getting some really good feedback from forum peeps - think i may go for these unless anyone can suggest better? (for the money)
got around £300 - £400 to spend.
Ive only drive one valver and it was modified, wider wheels and lowered quite a lot. It was pretty good but when i really pushed it i found that the rear end didnt quite keep up with the front, presumably because of the torsion bar at the rear.
As rockport says almost all cars are lowered pretty amateurishly, springs/shocks are changed and thats all that happens. There will be more grip but people say the handling is better though the reality is its probably worse, thing is you only start to realise when you really go for it and know how to drive!
-Rob
My rear end seems to brake first as well, not sure if its cos im off gas though. I try to go through most corners on neutral throttle for best balance. Im sure on wet roundabouts the rear goes first. In fact 4 wheel drifts are my speciality on really greasy roundabouts. Has anyone had the wierd sensation of having lost both ends but your still turning into the corner, like understeer but the backs sliding round on you, obviously the front hasnt totally lost grip here.
Actually its probably me being a sh*te driver.
I find that the front tries to puch out on me, nearing the kerb or hedge!
Ive only ever lost the back end twice and once was when I tried to nip the hand brake round the corner, ended up doin a 180. And the other was when I hit a corner too fast, with a lot of wear on the tires and three people in the car and then stupid me decided to brake whilst steering into it, all wheels locked up and then slid straight up a kerb!
Wasnt too impressd also cost me a fair bit!
Hmm - ok this is a difficult one as its not just suspension that will have a huge effect on cornering - dont forget those fat little round things - tyres!
I used to own a Standard (and more than a bit f**ked) 205 Gti 1.6 on 195x50x15 Imolas - not the quickest of motors granted, but I havnt been in a car since that handled quite like it
In French trailing arm suspension cars you generally have to be doing something fairly stupid loose the back end, and usually you will experience understeer before hand...
I have however had the back out in the dry going through a tight 90 left at over 40 without lifting off.... but the tyres on the back were not the greatest!
The 205 was such a monster in its day because little could catchup with it at the time. This was not because it was fast in a straight line, which comparatively now its not, but it was a dream through the corners.
Ive spooked cossies before by accident (believe it or not) because I never used to break for roundabouts... turn the wheel - round she goes... I do miss it... one day maybe again...
...Anyway - back on track - there are lots of things that will effect the handling of any car, but in my experience (at least with Rockport driving) the 16v is a good handling and not especially tail happy motor.
Ive never had the back out in the dry. And ive never had the front do anything but be glued to the road. Like Evo mag said, there is no inertia apparently with the Willy. The front is just glued to the road. There is no doubt that the back will go first in the wet on tighter slower corners, such as a roundabout would produce. I spoke to Nick Hill about this and he agrees that its just because the level of front end grip is so high on the Willy. I cant coment on the Valvers handling, but i have two Williams and they both have the same characteristic.
I find my lowered valver a bit "twitchy" but i think this is more down to the fact that since my accident im not as confident as i used to be. My lowered megane (accident car) felt more stable but then again that was a bigger car, more robust and didnt go as fast. Its more than likely that "twitchness" is a good thing considering what the 16v was designed to do (e.g rallying), and in the right hands gives a positive amount of control to the user.
Apparently the willy is a bit more chuckable/stable and im upgrading my front-end to that specification but for its age and in the right hands i think the 16v is still an impressive bit of kit......
Well, Ive had both a 16V and a Willy and feel qualified to comment! To be fair, the suspension on both cars is very different than on the normal Mk1 Clios, with four torsion bars and wider tracks. The Willy is in turn quite different from the 16V (certainly a lot more than the 172/Cup/182 variants are over each other). It uses the same shocks with different damping settings, stiffer springs up front, wider front track created not just by the wider wheels, but also the wishbones from a 19 16V and longer driveshafts, with the wider wheels giving a wider track at the rear too. Also has a double-skinned front subframe.
16V: Great handling car, excellent grip and lots of stability. Takes the 205 concept further, in that it wont throw you into a hedge with such ease. It actually handles very differently to the Williams - not that different in terms of character, but the front end definitely has more grip on the Willy. 16V relies on grip all round a bit more: front end doesnt dominate so much. Gets more jittery than the Williams on rough surfaces, but its still the no.2 IMO to the Willy.
Williams: Harsher damping means that the ride height returns quicker to level than in the 16V. Harsher ride in general. The Willy relies on this excellent shock rate to give control when half way through the travel available in the shocks - makes the car quicker. The wider front drags the rest of the car around the corner a lot more than in the 16V. Ive had the back end out, but usually its momentary, as the front takes the weight soon after. The Willy stays in contact with the tarmac more easily with its faster rebound rates and therefore grips very well on uneven sufaces. Blinding car. Given also the flat power delivery and I really have never been in/driven a car that cover the local B-roads so quickly. Leans a lot, but seldom loses grip.
Oh, and dont confuse handling with grip. If a Mk3 Golf (one of the all-time blunders of hot hatch handling) out-handles a 16V (one of the peaches) then theres something not right!¬
As Ben says - handling and grip are two different things.
In my Escort RS Turbo (lowered, polybushed, stupid camber on the front, soft Yokos) it will grip like the proverbial to the blanket round a corner in the dry, but it has no adjustability - it either grips or it doesnt at all. In the wet, this is especially pronounced, but that may have something to do with the semi-slicks...
The exs valver was adjustable mid-corner - throw it in a bit too fast, scrub some speed off with the tyres, lift off a bit and feel the back creep round a bit... It was so much more responsive and playful than the RS. A valver would leave the RS for dead on a twisty road due to the driver having a greater confidence through getting greater feeling through the steering wheel / seat of their pants etc - the RS has to be driven to the level you already know it grips at and no more. Experimenting is tricky as when it stops sticking it goes in a big way! Unlike a valver or williams that will go more gently and let you know when it is.
One of the complaints levelled at the 205s I believe was that the 1.9 was a lesser car than the 1.6, due to the fact that it was over-tyred and over-powered compared to the sweetly-balanced 1.6.
Surely the point of these french hot hatches is not how quickly you can go round a corner but how much fun you can have when youre in it? A german-built Audi S4 will grip like a b*****d round a corner but, as evo magazine says, it has no soul.
_Tom
ClioSport Club Member
Took about 3mil of tread off my front tyres!
Nah it was a good night - went on a secret lonesome cornering mission and really tested my car! It is quite twitchy sometimes but i found if you give it a bit more power it sticks generally. Which can be quite scary but real fun!
Found if you let off the gas or god forbid try and use the brake(Which i wouldnt dare!) the back tries come and say hello.
I know love my car even more and cant wait for coilovers.
Found a quite tight sweeping corner which i had a blast at a few times - Kept it planted and followed iot all the way round every time - at some stupid sppeds too!
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