Clio 16v Turbo Project.... Maybe??

[RSTuning]

I have just collected my old clio valver on a 1992 K, the body is tidy except the rear arches which i am going to weld some nice new metal in and it needs a front bumper as some c**k ripped it off . I have all the bits cosmetically for the car but my question is....

Do i turbo it??

High Boost or Low boost?

What gearboxes/clutches have people run with high boost. The ECU is not a problem as i can "chip" the original.

I also have a spare engine which i could use for the conversion if i went for forged pistons.

What sort of money would a clio turbo fetch as tbh i would be selling soon after completion.

Any comments appreciated

Paul

 

[midge]

you wouldnt get your money back onit.

 

[edde]

Running the WIlliams box is better as its a bit stonger. Nick Read used one on his valver high pressure turbo but he went though boxes like I go through toilet paper as he did hard 1/4 mile driving.
Its not worth it though best sell up no modified car is worth for the money you spend Nick got very little extra for his car being as it was probably the finest Mk1 ever.
Cluctch well depend whats power you run stock is fine I love mine much better than the silly aftermarket 5gtt one it had in plus its reputed to be good for 200hp. Also it's better quality.
Low boost meas not a high amount of power 180 I think which is tunned Williams spec might as well go high pressure for 240hp or very high pressure for over 240hp.
A better idea is a turbo engine from a VAG or similar and make the mounts up for it run an aftermarket ecu if you cannot get the old cars wiring or it won't work due to electronics thats a much better way round it. Plus it will be designed for massive power.

 

[RSTuning]

Running the WIlliams box is better as its a bit stonger. Nick Read used one on his valver high pressure turbo but he went though boxes like I go through toilet paper as he did hard 1/4 mile driving.
Its not worth it though best sell up no modified car is worth for the money you spend Nick got very little extra for his car being as it was probably the finest Mk1 ever.
Cluctch well depend whats power you run stock is fine I love mine much better than the silly aftermarket 5gtt one it had in plus its reputed to be good for 200hp. Also it's better quality.
Low boost meas not a high amount of power 180 I think which is tunned Williams spec might as well go high pressure for 240hp or very high pressure for over 240hp.
A better idea is a turbo engine from a VAG or similar and make the mounts up for it run an aftermarket ecu if you cannot get the old cars wiring or it won't work due to electronics thats a much better way round it. Plus it will be designed for massive power.

Cheers for the reply mate, I have just managed to pick up a Turbo Technics rebuilt turbo and Dump valve (renno 5) for 100 quid! Just need to get a *****mould made and consider dropping compression on my spare motor. I have a spare Laguna box somewhere which i think is the same as the willy so i'm half way there.

Paul

 

[dannyboy]

what turbo do k tec or bb use in their high bost conversion?

 

[RSTuning]

what turbo do k tec or bb use in their high bost conversion?

I think BB use a T28 Turbo. Not sure what to do as neither K-Tec or BB use forged pistons. BB use a thicker head gasket and K-Tec use 2 gaskets and a flat spacer.

Paul

 

[edde]

Cheers for the reply mate, I have just managed to pick up a Turbo Technics rebuilt turbo and Dump valve (renno 5) for 100 quid! Just need to get a *****mould made and consider dropping compression on my spare motor. I have a spare Laguna box somewhere which i think is the same as the willy so i'm half way there.

Don't forget the 5gtt has a different requirments it depnds on what spec turbo you have you don't want to go overspeeding the turbo etc.
Another or a thick head gasget is the easy way to lower the CR which the low boost cars use sucessfully.
Whats cooling will you be used the stock radiator not that good anyway plus with a big IC you'll have even hotter air getting to the rad anyway.
Repostion tha battery though that will help with space as its tight anyway.
There is or was a 600hp engine abroad some time ago so if you want a target but thats very expensive.
You'll have to drop the CR to many any real power to bet even a camed 2.0.
If you can personally I'd go to a 2.0 bottom end for starters.
JC5 is the box code you want 1.8 16V use the JB3.
If you want a more interesting challenge go to a twin engined setup its got to be better for 1/4 mile work. Two 1.8 engines is ~280hp which is high boost turbo range plus better traction.

 

[Fred@BTM]

I think BB use a T28 Turbo. Not sure what to do as neither K-Tec or BB use forged pistons. BB use a thicker head gasket and K-Tec use 2 gaskets and a flat spacer.

Paul

eh??? doubt it

 

[RSTuning]

Doubt what?? ^^^

K-Tec's:
http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=1775

BB's Turbo:
http://www.bbperformancetuning.co.uk/products/product.asp?id=70689

Cheers

Paul

 

[dannyboy]

edde- drop the CR?? whats that mean, sorry.......

 

[RSTuning]

edde- drop the CR?? whats that mean, sorry.......

Compression Ratio

Paul

 

[dannyboy]

so would the strongest turbo conversion be using forged pistons??

 

[Dan@SJM]

Depends. loads of other factors.

 

[16vturbolee]

yes bb use a t28

 

[stan*]

ideally you dont want to drop the compression ratio...it ruins drivability when off boost/crusing.

theres to ways to do this:
1)the proper way
2)the non-proper way i.e. little attention to detail

bodged way: drop Cr, by either a thicker head gasket, or a spacer and gaskets. this is poor attention to detail. increased squish volume is not what we want here. poor/no charge cooling. no revision of chamber design...stock pistons/head.

the proper way would be to use forged pistons with a decent crown design to allow for a det-friendly chamber. these would run along-side an improved head chamber, again to prevent detonation. you may want to consider increasing the valve area of the head to increase its flow potential.
you would want to alter the cam profiles and timing to maximise the energy devlivered to the turbo by the exhaust gases, and the charge entering the cylinder.
chargecooling is an essentuial part of a pressure-charged system. if done correctly detonation can be off-set, and so more cylinder pressure can be run.
exhaust header...a nice tubular one, equal leangth...not that "bodged" log thing k-tec/bbt use
decent mapping to allow the correct fuel and ignition requirments to be met. these are critical in the on-going batlle with detonation, which is encountered with pressure charging.

 

[RSTuning]

ideally you dont want to drop the compression ratio...it ruins drivability when off boost/crusing.

theres to ways to do this:
1)the proper way
2)the non-proper way i.e. little attention to detail

bodged way: drop Cr, by either a thicker head gasket, or a spacer and gaskets. this is poor attention to detail. increased squish volume is not what we want here. poor/no charge cooling. no revision of chamber design...stock pistons/head.

the proper way would be to use forged pistons with a decent crown design to allow for a det-friendly chamber. these would run along-side an improved head chamber, again to prevent detonation. you may want to consider increasing the valve area of the head to increase its flow potential.
you would want to alter the cam profiles and timing to maximise the energy devlivered to the turbo by the exhaust gases, and the charge entering the cylinder.
chargecooling is an essentuial part of a pressure-charged system. if done correctly detonation can be off-set, and so more cylinder pressure can be run.
exhaust header...a nice tubular one, equal leangth...not that "bodged" log thing k-tec/bbt use
decent mapping to allow the correct fuel and ignition requirments to be met. these are critical in the on-going batlle with detonation, which is encountered with pressure charging.

Yes agreed, I am currently seeking some low comp forged pistons and possibly going to go the 2.0l route. I am going to try have a tubular manifold made to suite the turbo and spend lots of time doing the build. I'm hoping for a decent result when finished and currently collecting all required bits! I.e. injectors etc..

Paul

 

[dannyboy]

Paul- i'm doing the same, but will be a slow process for me to amass the parts needed, as it will be a case of when i can afford stuff. if you got any handly links of who good/ cheapest for parts please let me know!

 

[stan*]

Paul: i can supply a tubular turbo manifold. PM me for details

 

[RSTuning]

Paul- i'm doing the same, but will be a slow process for me to amass the parts needed, as it will be a case of when i can afford stuff. if you got any handly links of who good/ cheapest for parts please let me know!

No probs mate, i'm just looking into the manifold at the mo but not quite sure who will make one. Maybe we can get more discount for buying double everything . Most of the stuff i should be able to source trade but as you can imagine some of the stuff is a pain!

Paul

 

[RSTuning]

Paul: i can supply a tubular turbo manifold. PM me for details

PM Sent :approve:

Paul

 

[dannyboy]

cheers paul- yes lets hope for discount for buying 2 of everything!!

 

[FlansS14]

A better idea is a turbo engine from a VAG or similar and make the mounts up for it run an aftermarket ecu if you cannot get the old cars wiring or it won't work due to electronics thats a much better way round it. Plus it will be designed for massive power.

you've got the right idea......... start with a good engine

 

[RSTuning]

Just looking into some custom forged pistons. Can anyone recommend any or anywhere?

Cheers

Paul

 

[BenR]

you've got the right idea......... start with a good engine

best strike the vag 20v off the list then

 

[BenR]

Just looking into some custom forged pistons. Can anyone recommend any or anywhere?

Cheers

Paul

quickest and easiers will be to contact JE or accralite.

 

[RSTuning]

quickest and easiers will be to contact JE or accralite.

Cheers mate will do.

Paul

 

[stan*]

i can also supply accralite pistons at a decent price. if you give me the spec, i will sort you a price.

 

[RSTuning]

Out of interest what sort of money would a Turbo Clio fetch?
1992K in Toungsten Grey
16" 5 Spoke Alloys
Very Good Body
Full MOT
Conversion With Forged Pistons 9.0:1 CR
Fully rebuilt motor from bottom end up

Cheers

Paul

 

[BenR]

if it was pumping over 300bhp, maybe.....if you cand find the buyer, 5k

they are worth zilch.

 

[RSTuning]

if it was pumping over 300bhp, maybe.....if you cand find the buyer, 5k

they are worth zilch.

Hmm, never mind! Have been thinking that tbh as it would be a b**ch for someone to insure. Also would need the right buyer. I was hoping to get 3k but may seriously have to think about not doing the conversion as i really don't want a clio stuck in the workshop

Cheers

Paul

 

[FlansS14]

best strike the vag 20v off the list then

Piss take... lol

20v all the way... ill show ya... ..... one day...

 

[dannyboy]

but is over 300 brake achievable?

 

[RSTuning]

If u got very very deep pockets then yes

Paul

 

[stan*]

lol

like i said earlier, theres two ways: the proper way, and theres the usual/bodged/"not very good but it works" way.

both have very different results.

 

[RSTuning]

lol

like i said earlier, theres two ways: the proper way, and theres the usual/bodged/"not very good but it works" way.

both have very different results.

Yup, the non-piston way brings the cost down so much but if i do still do it there is no way i am using a spacer and 2 gaskets!

Paul

 

[dannyboy]

agreed^^^^^

 

[MAXIBOY]

pistons for up to 260 bhp are only 40 quid a set after that it gets expensive but i think between 350 and 400bhp is possible but still not 100% sure about the uprated gear box

 

[dannyboy]

the pistons that k tec sell are over 500notes!! they must be aiming for over 260 BHP every time then ;o0)

 

[Neil G]

Important to speak to someone in the know about which turbo to use otherwise you may end up with an incredibly laggy car which is a pain to drive.

Personally I'd save up for a decent 172/182

 

[djsly]

Garret T3 should do the perfect job.