Clio 172 Cup - cutting out/not starting... Ran out of ideas now Help!

[townlea]

Hi there,

Been having problems with the car for 2-3 months now and has become worse.

I have scouted the forum for entire time looking for an answer! It appears MicKPM knows his stuff but unfortunately he is too far away considering the car is no longer running.

Usual symptoms that everyone seems to be getting..

When driving the car normally it just cuts out and even when gradually accelerating or holding speed at 70mph on a motorway not necessary when coming to a stop (which a few people have experienced). Car can refuse to fire up most of the time hot or cold. When it does fire up it can last between 5 seconds to 4 minutes until it cuts out again. Car always cranks and the immobilisers light comes on then goes off when I put the key in the ignition, I have tried both keys and same symptoms.

I did a 30 mile journey a week ago and no problems, no cutting out and no starting issues, I parked up and came back a couple of hours later to find the car not firing but as usual always cranking.



I have had it plugged into a diagnostic and came up with potentiometer fault and P0136 and P0141.

I have replaced the Throttle pedal, Throttle Body and the post cat lambda sensor and has not cured the problem. They were all working second hand parts.

The Lambda sensor being replaced has not removed the fault codes.

I assume code P0136 and P0141 are Post cat and not Pre Cat?
P0136 Oxygen 02 Sensor Circuit Malfunction / Low Voltage (Bank 1, Sensor 2)
P0141 Oxygen 02 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1, Sensor 2)

I have had a brand new coil pack fitted and a TDC sensor fitted (aftermarket one not the new Renault one with the new loom)
Also new Battery purchased last week.

I have wiggled the two black relays and even swapped them around and still nothing. Checked the wiring for the TDC sensor and all seems fine.


I've had enough of this car now so any help I would appreciate it.

Townlea

 

[pastieman]

You my friend have gremlins in the car.... I have the same !!!

Is the symbol that's looks like a heart beat monitor on when these faults occur!!

 

[st3ve]

Post cat lambda sensor has nothing to do with the running of the engine so that's not going to solve any issues.

Personally I would get it to a specialist, you could continue replacing sensors and other parts but you're just guessing.

 

[MicKPM]

Deffo a wiring related fault there with the H02... Low voltage and heater function will be caused by the same thing, no power and as you've found out simply changing the sensor will be of no use.

I'd wager all your faults are down to a faulty loom or poor earth hiding somewhere.

 

[townlea]

Post cat lambda sensor has nothing to do with the running of the engine so that's not going to solve any issues.

Personally I would get it to a specialist, you could continue replacing sensors and other parts but you're just guessing.

As far as I am aware there are not any specialists nearby. The car just cuts out after a few minutes at moment so really isn't drivable.

So trying to eliminate the problem by working my way through parts is only an option. What other sensors and parts have a I yet to try then?

 

[townlea]

Deffo a wiring related fault there with the H02... Low voltage and heater function will be caused by the same thing, no power and as you've found out simply changing the sensor will be of no use.

I'd wager all your faults are down to a faulty loom or poor earth hiding somewhere.

Post cat?

I was reading Scrooge's fault and it turned out to be post cat so that's why I changed it even though it has nothing to do with the running of the car.

 

[MicKPM]

Which ever isn't working yes but it won't be the cause of your random cutting out car.

 

[pastieman]

I have a few electrical problems with my clio all intermittent !!!

I have the non start just turning over fault every now again but it only does it when the heart beat symbol is on !!!

A few turns of the key or clicks on the fob gets it going!!!


I did have the cutting out fault but plugs, leads, coil pack an a temp sensor sorted that !!! For now !!!

But I have had also where I have started the car up and the revs will sit at 2k and there will be no throttle when pressing the pedal, turn it off and on then it's fine lol

I also have intermittent abs fault which tells me the pedal switch is at fault have had three new ones on there.... Either points to the Module or loom !!!

Also I have a fault with my fuel gauge showing empty every now again ( even with a full tank) new pump and sender fitted

But all faults are not be present for days then they show up and they don't all show up at the same time !!!

Uch is fine has had it tested !!!

I'm pretty sure I have loom problems

 

[townlea]

Which ever isn't working yes but it won't be the cause of your random cutting out car.

Got a bit of an update since messing with the car.

Car will only start when the fuel pump primes... only when it primes it will fire but only last 2-3 seconds.

Is it normal for it not to prime every time?

 

[Terry172]

Got a bit of an update since messing with the car.

Car will only start when the fuel pump primes... only when it primes it will fire but only last 2-3 seconds.

Is it normal for it not to prime every time?

You should always hear the fuel pump priming when you turn the ignition on.

Have you replaced the black relays mate? You can get these from RSTuner and they are cheaper than Renault parts.

3x RS Stock code: 535-2542 @ £2.80 each +vat
15A SPCO 12v relay

linky

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/

Less than a tenner and hopefully will fix you problem

 

[townlea]

Yeah swapped them but there is a chance one is completely knackered and other one is sticking. Will buy them tonight.

It could be the cutting out problem is fixed but this problem is completely new it appears.

 

[MicKPM]

More likely to be corrosion at the terminals tbh but there's no harm in swapping the clicky bits to. Jut make sure there's no nasty nasty green stuff when you pull the old relays out.

 

[townlea]

More likely to be corrosion at the terminals tbh but there's no harm in swapping the clicky bits to. Jut make sure there's no nasty nasty green stuff when you pull the old relays out.

No nasty green stuff thankfully. I've given the terminals a bit of a spray aswell but nothing. Tried for 30 mins and not once did the fuel pump prime.

Am I right in saying the 2 black relays are for the fuel pump and the fan?
My fan never kicks in so I could have always had a dodgy relay and now both of them are gone.

 

[MicKPM]

Okay, before you go out buying things lets try jumping the relay pins to see if it's a pump problem or not.

 

[Sean6545]

Iv had a very similar problem on a 182 before. Id be looking at replacing the fuel pump.

 

[Terry172]

No nasty green stuff thankfully. I've given the terminals a bit of a spray aswell but nothing. Tried for 30 mins and not once did the fuel pump prime.

Am I right in saying the 2 black relays are for the fuel pump and the fan?
My fan never kicks in so I could have always had a dodgy relay and now both of them are gone.

Okay, before you go out buying things lets try jumping the relay pins to see if it's a pump problem or not.

For the cost of less than £10 and with him saying his fan never worked either, he may as well buy the relays and give that a go as it may solve 2 issues .... the fuel pump priming and his fan

 

[townlea]

Okay, before you go out buying things lets try jumping the relay pins to see if it's a pump problem or not.

Hi Mick bit of an update.

Went to friendly auto electrics supplier who let me use 2 new relays to see if it was at fault.

The pump will prime every time and when I start the car it will cut out after 5 or so seconds when it runs out of fuel. Come to restart it the pump will not prime unless I take the relay out and put it back in and primes every time again.

Its like the fuel pump will not work due to being immobilised but the immobiliser light goes on then out when ignition is on.

Any ideas?

 

[MicKPM]

It's the relay control circuit mate. Fit a jumper and drive it in

 

[townlea]

It's the relay control circuit mate. Fit a jumper and drive it in

Thanks Mick for your advice you are truly a great asset to the forum.

Bad news though.. Fitted a jumper cable, fuel pump primed started the car and again cut out after 10 or so seconds. However this time it was struggling to idle like the pump was not providing enough pressure.

 

[MicKPM]

Are you sure there's a good, stable voltage at the pump?

 

[townlea]

Are you sure there's a good, stable voltage at the pump?

Sorry for the late reply I've been doing a lot of fault finding.

I've got the multimeter out and checked to see if there is a 12v to the terminal. got 12.4v
Tapped into the wiring that goes back to the fuel pump with the relay in and ignition on and got 12.3v
Tapped into the wiring into the fuel pump and started the car. It fluctuated between 10.5v and 11.0v for 3 or so seconds then rapidly going to 0v and the engine cut out.

(with two people to hand)
I tapped into the positive and the negative on the fuel pump and hooked it up to a direct 12v feed and quickly cranked the car. Ran fine and even gave the car a few revs and was fine for 15 mins.

So fuel pump is not the problem.

This helped you give an insight the problem?

 

[MicKPM]

A bit yes... Now you've got to diagnose the electrical circuit to the pump as its either the controlling side or the supply side that's at fault.

Starting at the pump end work backwards and inspect the wiring loom for damaged wiring (trapped, crushed, exposed/shorts) and be sure to check all multi plugs for signs of corrosion. If that's all good you will need to go to the engine bay and look at the wiring on the underside of the relay plate. It looks overwhelming/intimidating but follow each wire in turn from the fuel pump relay back to its source and fix any damage/corrosion you find.

The circuit gets its power direct from the main control relay and the ECU controls the earth that switches it on/off. Don't forget to keep checking voltages to at each joint as sometimes the connectors the selfs can be the issue due to corrosion, poor terminal connections, loose fittings, etc.

Mick

 

[townlea]

Thanks Mick much appreciated for the detailed response.

I think the the ECU earth is suspect to the problem to switching it on/off.

Ill post up my findings and if I find a fix I'll post it up.

Thanks
townlea

 

[MicKPM]

I'd be surprised if its the actual ECU at fault mate, honestly but have a good luck and let us know how you get on.

Mick

 

[townlea]

Sorted the problem Mick.

Started from the back as you said and only 30cm from the pump I found the cable had slightly melted. Patched it up and runs perfect now.

Many thanks for your guidance another success story to add to your collection.

Townlea

 

[MicKPM]

I'm not bad (for a ginger) ;-)

Glad you sorted it mate... Support bill on its way LoLz

Mick