Clio 172 Cup, Engine advice/help please

[KenH]

Gentlemen, I would welcome your advice and suggestions please.

Been on track at Blyton Park today having lots of fun until my engine rattled and then lost all power. I was able to take it out of gear and coast off the track. I turned the key to see if it would restart but just got a clicking sound. I only live round the corner so got my wife to assist me with a tow home ( that made her sweat a bit. Having had a good lokk under the bonnet I noticed a small pool of oil just under the pipe connecting the air filter to the inlet manifold. (the pipe was not that well attached). Took the air filter cover off and saw quite a bit of oil in the pipe(ductwhatever you call it).

This looks pretty serious to me as somehow oil is getting out the engine into the inlet manifold and my first thoughts were that something bad has happened in the cylinder head and possibly the cambelt has snapped or jumped. However I don't know why this should stop the engine turning over unless something has jammed.


Ok, so where do I go from here? The car is at my house and while I can do routine maintenance, oil change etc, I am no mechanic. I live in rural Lincolnshire ( north of Gainsborough)and there are no RS specialists around here as far as I know. It would be good to get the car to a specialist like BTM to see it gets sorted properly but the transport costs rule this out.

Suggestions please folks as to what I should do next and does anybody know how much it would cost if the cam belt had gone to get the head and valves sorted.

Thanks

Ken

 

[sprintcup]

Sorry to here that, but it does sound like the belts may have gone or jumped, I'd go on the traders section and have a look who's nearest to you, I think Mick at Diamond Motors travels to do repairs but don't quote me on that.

Regards Russ..........

 

[Dan519]

I'll take a guess as dropped a valve head and smashed a piston

 

[KenH]

Thanks fellas for the replies so far. Where are Diamond Motors based?

Just been speaking to Rob at Rob Boston Racing who I've known for years. He may be able to have a look at it if he's not too busy prepping race cars. He also reckons it probably has put a valve through the piston, the cambelt having snapped on the downchange. About as bad as it could get then.

So probably cheapest option will be to pick up a secondhand 172 engine, refresh it and drop it in. Sounds so easy doesn't it when you say it like that. Anyone know of any decent ones?

If either this or a replacement engine is going to be stripped and rebuilt would you suggest any upgrades, eg cams or will that involve replacing lots of other bits?

 

[KenH]

Thanks fellas for the replies so far. Where are Diamond Motors based?

Just looked him up in the traders section as suggested and see he's in Nottingham.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Get a nice low mileage one - swap the conrod bolts for ARP ones as they're cheap and very easy to do while the engines out - and chuck it in

Cams are expensive for these engines so unless you've got a grand lying around for cams and a map I wouldn't bother - get it back on track and have fun in it

 

[KenH]

Thanks Phil.

Plan A when I got the car was to keep it standard and just belt it round. 3 track days in 2 weeks so far.

What you suggest sounds sensible but I thought while it's in bits I would do anything simple.

 

[sprintcup]

Get a nice low mileage one - swap the conrod bolts for ARP ones as they're cheap and very easy to do while the engines out - and chuck it in

Cams are expensive for these engines so unless you've got a grand lying around for cams and a map I wouldn't bother - get it back on track and have fun in it

As Phil has said TBH

I used Dan at 519 for my belts as it's worth getting someone who knows what they are doing and has the correct tools, just to say it was worth the trip for me and I live in Manchester, I don't know how close he is to you, but would be worth a call, see his traders section!

 

[Fred@BTM]

take then old engine and box out yourself (its not that hard if you can borrow a crane) get "one of us" to sort out your new engine - belt etc throw it in the boot of your car and re fit it all yourself - easy!

 

[Russ_16v]

OR let Fred do it in his sleep lol

 

[KenH]

take then old engine and box out yourself (its not that hard if you can borrow a crane) get "one of us" to sort out your new engine - belt etc throw it in the boot of your car and re fit it all yourself - easy!

I wish I had your confidence in my ability and I'm not sure it would go in the boot of my wife's Picanto. I could imagine having traction issues

 

[Fred@BTM]

shall i be REALLY sad and list every nut and bolt size required and the order you undo them in?

 

[Russ_16v]

OR let Fred do it in his sleep lol

shall i be REALLY sad and list every nut and bolt size required and the order you undo them in?

Told you.....

 

[KenH]

shall i be REALLY sad and list every nut and bolt size required and the order you undo them in?

Yeah, go on Fred, I know you want to.

Is it really that easy and do I need any special tools other than spanners, socket set, screwdriver and big hammer. I would hate to get half way then find there was some special tool needed from Renault. Also I should add that it is 33 years since I last took an engine out of a car (MG Midget) and things were much simpler then.

On a different note if taking the engine out presumably it would be a good idea to fit new (uprated?) mounts as mine will have done 70k.

 

[KenH]

Update

The Clio is back on the road again at last. Thanks to James Baker for the replacement engine, Mick at Diamond Motors for checking it over and also to everyone on here for your advice. Thanks also to my mate Rob at Rob Boston Racing for swapping it over for me. Despite all the suggestions I should do it myself I chickened out in the end and pleased I did as there were one or two problems along the way. (Mick will probably be relieved he didn't take it on at the excellent price he quoted). There was so much fine debris in the manifolds and plenum that it took me about 3 hours to scrub it all out before they could go back on the new engine.

Interestingly while cleaning I noticed that the throttle body was 64mm diameter. Is this standard?(see separate post)

I hope to be back on track again at Blyton Park very soon with the new RSRs. Anyone else going down in next couple of weeks?

As the new tyres are 205/45s there is a bit of rubbing on the nearside rear wheel arch liner when pushing on through right handers. (Geo checked and it is ok). Anyone else had this problem with 205/45s?

 

[Cup_Phil]

I run 205/50/15 tyres on mine and the rear rubs ever so slightly on the arch liners - doesn't bother me - it's only plastic

Glad it's back on the road - I'm hoping to get over to Blyton at some point this year. One of my mates is there doing it on Monday in his Clio

 

[KenH]

I would have liked to do that one but it's full now but I will be down there having a look. What is your mate driving?

 

[.GAZ.]

What did you do to the new engine before you put it in the car??

 

[KenH]

What did you do to the new engine before you put it in the car??

Nothing orher than plugs and fluids. I was very lucky (I hope). Bought the engine from James Baker who had it in his Scenic (well documented on this forum) and was able to hear it running before it came out. Mick at Diamond Motors had done the belts about 18 months earlier and knew ithe engine well. James dropped the engine off at Mick's who gave it a quick look over. Apart from new plugs he couldn't see anything else obvious that needed doing. Was tempted to let Mick do the engine swap but that meant getting the car to Nottingham and so decided to take the engine home. Rob Boston who raced in the Clio cup 3 or 4 years ago and has been mates with my son since they were five was keen to have the Clio in his workshop and said he'd swap the engine over when he had time between prepping race cars and it was done at the weekend. I have not been on the track with it yet but so far it seems ok.

I stiil am not sure why the old engine went bang but am worried it might be my driving as it failed on a 3/2 downshift and may have overrevved it. The old engine has not been dismantled yet but practically all the valves are bent and we think the debris is from a valve guide. The cam belt is still intact.

I am paranoid now that I will wreck another engine with my driving so didn't want to spend a fortune on it. After speaking to Mick I went with the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach.

So fingers crossed.....

 

[.GAZ.]

I would still have had the belts done.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I would have liked to do that one but it's full now but I will be down there having a look. What is your mate driving?

A stripped out silver Ph1 172

I'm hoping to pop down with the camera and take some pics

 

[KenH]

I would still have had the belts done.

Mick said the cambelt should be fine as less than 2 years/20k. The auxiliary belt came off my old engine and had only done 500 miles.

Given the cost of doing them is about same as what the engine cost me I didn't think it was worth it.

If I had bought an engine with unknown history then it would have been different.

 

[KenH]

A stripped out silver Ph1 172

I'm hoping to pop down with the camera and take some pics

I will probably see you down there then.