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clio 182 F4R rebuild



W

wayne_182

Hello peeps,
So I have a 2005 clio 182 that has been running problem free for 4 years - just regular oil and filter changes (DIY) and last year into a pro for cam/aux belt changes.
14 mths later the aux belt goes while over-taking up a hill (so flat out) ... with it goes the cam-belt and all the valves
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(
prognosis from same garage who changed the belt kits (apart from not my fault!) was ~2400 quids to put it right !!!!
.......
So I am starting down the DIY rebuild path
I have uploaded pictures of the before ... showing bent valves etc ... no idea how to link an album to this thread (advise welcome)

I have a quote from ROCHDALE ENGINES
1
Renault 2.0 16v Petrol F4R Recondition Your Own Cylinder head Service | eBay
to do the head recon for 260quid incl 16x valves, 16x cam followers, oil seals and rockers/guides if required + clean and skim
which sounds like a dream deal to me

QUESTION.1 : Has anybody used ROCHDALE ENGINES ..... good or bad .... email exchange is very reasonable and ebay feedback it 100% out of 585 deals
tango_face_glasses.png

QUESTION.2 : How can I tell exactly which F4R engine I have …. it seems to make a difference when ordering some parts….. I have noted the 'scribblings' on the cams if that can help ??
all comments welcome
tango_face_wink.png
 
W

wayne_182

Andyman,
that has been considered ..... thing is they are rather like rocking horse manure ..... near me anyways
and when I do see them they from 750-2500E ....... to which you still need to add new cam belt/aux belt kits....
The more serious option is to chuck the whole car and get another one for under 3K pounds ..... which has also been considered .... but that means breaking up the one I have ... 'my baby' 😧
so it's now my spare time project finding solutions on the cheap ..... I already opened a thread concerning trusting parts from the likes of eurocarparts ... or not ???

So do you know of ROCHDALE ENGINES ???? :blush:
 
SWL16

SWL16

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182
I went down the replacement engine route. Cost me £300 plus labour to fit. Delivered from Norwich To Portsmouth. Where are you based that you can't get one delivered?

(Though I can't comment atm on the success of the engine finding as it's still being fitted.)

Ps cambelt etc. is a lot cheaper to do when the engine is out
 
W

wayne_182

SWL16 said:
I went down the replacement engine route. Cost me £300 plus labour to fit. Delivered from Norwich To Portsmouth. Where are you based that you can't get one delivered?

(Though I can't comment atm on the success of the engine finding as it's still being fitted.)

Ps cambelt etc. is a lot cheaper to do when the engine is out
Click to expand...
So your total bill is going to be what 1500 ??? if a pro is fitting + two belt kits ???
I am in the French Alpes :smile:
 
W

wayne_182

bloke said:
buy a used head. also how the hell can someone work a bill of £2,400 out?
Click to expand...
Hi Bloke,
looked at that too ….. Rochdale Engines do some nice recon heads for 190 quid …. thought I had it sorted … but there are so many variations on this F4R engine it's very easy to get it wrong …… check all the photos you like … there is always some doubts … anyways I've not found one incl. a cam cover that matches what I have :( …… Hence the idea to get Rochdale engines to recon MY own head for 260 quid incl. 16 new valves, cam followers, oil seals etc. but I've had no feedback on them (do you know of them?) ….. but it remains the best way forward unless someone tells me of a horror story !!!
btw can you tell me how I can identify which version of the F4R engine I have ???
and yes 2400 is outrageous but when you're paying someone 50quid an hour + all the parts & machine shop time at dealer prices …. that's what it comes to :(
 
W

wayne_182

parts bill …..
aux + cam belt + all pulleys and tensioners ~300
dephaser inlet cam pulley ~200
gaskets & head bolts & spark plugs 200
plastic cover for cam belt ~50 (busted when cam belt went)
the recon head 260
tools to set & block the cams ~100
misc 'stuff' 100 (new oil, sealant, angle gauge etc.)
+ 15hrs x 50 quid +vat on everything and you'll hit that mark
 
B

bloke

  dan's cast offs.
christ prices are expensive over there!!

not heard of them but will check with a mate, he's been doing engines for years. at that price though they will be aftermarket valves, can't for the life of me think of the make sorry.

cam cover looks like a normal one to me?
 
W

wayne_182

those prices are from eurocarparts.co.uk !!!!
true I can save a bit here and there … but always worried about consequences of something being too cheap esp. head bolts, cam belts pulleys etc
in fact eurocarparts.fr is cheaper!!!!
labour, machine shop time and second hand ARE expensive though …… engines are 700 upto 2500euros !!!
people here LOVE Renault sport, what ever the age it holds premium prices ….
 
W

wayne_182

bloke said:
i've got a good 182 engine here that i can sort for you if you want? got history with it and had belts about 2 years ago. easy enough to chuck it on a pallet and send it to you.
Click to expand...
I'm interested :) … can you tell me about it …. like what is the history ?? mileage, year, why it's available, last time it was running OK ? & how much incl. shipping ??
 
W

wayne_182

Update …… I have the recon head back from Rochdale motors ….. looks good! ….. new valves, oil seals and cam followers + skim and clean for 260 quid delivery and pick-up included!!! ….. now I have a stack of kit - aux & cam belt kits incl.pulleys, VVT cog, gasket set, camshaft seals, head bolts, water pump, cam setting tools, TORX tools …… block is shinny clean and checked flat to better than 0.1mm …….. so ready for the starting gun …. not quite …. still waiting for those replacement head alignment plugs … small & cheap …. but not optional …... I have a photo diary on google docs but no idea how to share it here ???
 
W

wayne_182

Hello,
so the drama has begun …..
I thought I would checkout a few things before putting too much together ….. more space to get at the water pump without the head on (for example) and TDC should be more obvious because I can see the pistons ….. hmmmm well it seems as though there are TWO TDC positions when I can get the flywheel blocking tool to insert fully ….. which correspond to pistons 2 & 3 or pistons 1 & 4 ???? so which is it and how would I avoid that when the head was on the block ??????????
 
W

wayne_182

Furthermore ….. The crankshaft piñon does not want to come off which worries me ….. obviously the bolt has been removed !!!
So it's difficult to verify the TDC as I can not see the piñon key/slot ….. will take a picture ….
 
W

wayne_182

OK….after turning the engine and checking every blocking point …. it seems I was using the wrong locking pin!!!!! (too long one)
ARSE!!! ….. Now I have only one solid blocking point that corresponds pistons 1 & 4 at TDC!!! ….
The fact that the crankshaft piñon/cog does not come off ….. well I guess it does not need to come off :eek:)
the water pump is off but 99% of the gasket is firmly attached to the engine housing ….. apparently it's best to use some kind of gasket cleaning agent .. something pretty nasty …. any recommendations ???
else it's pretty sure the surface is going to get hacked about, if I go at it with a paint scraper in such a constricted space….
All tips welcome ;)
 
B

bloke

  dan's cast offs.
1&4 will always be at tdc at the same time. crank pulley needs t come off and clean the rust from the crank tail/inside of pulley as it has to be able to spin freely.

is the locking pin push in one or screw in one?
 
W

wayne_182

locking pin has no screw ..... the one with the screw seems to be too long .... only screws in, in non TDC points x2 ... caused some issues today! ...
crankshaft PULLEY is off ...it's the crankshaft cog or pinon that the cambelt runs on that I can not get off ..... and since there is a locking key ..... I am not sure how it can (or should) able to spin freely ..... but then again I've never done this before ... so what do I know ...... just what I've read .....
I assume..... that so long as the crank shaft pinon or cog is 'welded' on and does not slip or move, then the camshaft pulleys can be set to match it ..... else dead engine ... before it even gets going ... which would be really s**t ...... time will tell .....
 
W

wayne_182

wayne_182 said:
locking pin has no screw ..... the one with the screw seems to be too long .... only screws in, in non TDC points x2 ... caused some issues today! ...
crankshaft PULLEY is off ...it's the crankshaft cog or pinon that the cambelt runs on that I can not get off ..... and since there is a locking key ..... I am not sure how it can (or should) able to spin freely ..... but then again I've never done this before ... so what do I know ...... just what I've read .....
I assume..... that so long as the crank shaft pinon or cog is 'welded' on and does not slip or move, then the camshaft pulleys can be set to match it ..... else dead engine ... before it even gets going ... which would be really s**t ...... time will tell .....
Click to expand...
 

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W

wayne_182

Progress … the head is on … albeit a bit of a fight to get it to sit on the locating plugs ….. just hope the head surface was not scrapped up too much ….. cams in and cover on ….. thermostat housing on and exhaust attached too ….. but struggling BIG TIME with the water pump ….. getting the old gasket off that seems to be 'welded' on in such a tight space …… ALL TIPS will be welcome …… I think it's going to need some nasty chemical to eat it away … I have tried a paint scrapper and drill + wire brush ….. neither seem to be getting good results :(
 
W

wayne_182

Anyone got info concerning the thermostat housing torque setting ???
At first, I thought to use the same as the water pump, but there the bolts are into steel, whereas the thermostat is on the Al. head .... for now I've used same value as the cam cover, so only 12Nm but would like to know if anyone has a better number ???? :)
 
W

wayne_182

Well I spent this weekend getting the head on ...... pain in the arse getting the head to sit on the alignment plugs ... fingers crossed the head surface didn't get too scratched up !?!?!?
cams in, cover on, exhaust on, themostat on (not sure about torque value) ......
..... now waiting for solution for water pump gasket removal from motor block ... before installing the belts
 
W

wayne_182

Budgie ..... any tips for getting it off without damaging it or the casing ..... it's pretty solidly stuck on !!!
There are two screw holes in it ..... see picture TDC_setting1.jpg in previous post .... thought I could rig something up using a brake piston tool ..... but knowing me ... something would brake!!
 
B

bloke

  dan's cast offs.
i normally screw a grub screw in each one and then wind it with a bar, can sometimes take five minutes to get the pulley off.

you need the pin without the screw and make sure you are in the locking hole not the balance drilling, it's very easy to get it in the wrong hole!!
 
JamesBryan

JamesBryan

ClioSport Club Member
bloke said:
i normally screw a grub screw in each one and then wind it with a bar, can sometimes take five minutes to get the pulley off.

you need the pin without the screw and make sure you are in the locking hole not the balance drilling, it's very easy to get it in the wrong hole!!
Click to expand...

That's life :tongueclosed:
 
W

wayne_182

bloke said:
i normally screw a grub screw in each one and then wind it with a bar, can sometimes take five minutes to get the pulley off.

you need the pin without the screw and make sure you are in the locking hole not the balance drilling, it's very easy to get it in the wrong hole!!
Click to expand...
but you can avoid that error by checking the crankshaft position !!?? ... plus when I had the head off I could only find ONE fully locked TDC position .. perhaps I am lucky with the balancing holes ???
 
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