Clio 182 seriously underpowered, help!!

[willow]

Right guys I'm really struggling with my 182 and need help! It's seriously lacking power and we can't find the cause and its now starting to cost serious money! The engine management light is on, airbag light is on, traction control light is on and serv light is on..
the car brings up crank sensor for the engine management problem which I have replaced with several new ones and flywheel target is also the other fault it brings up..
so far we have replaced.. Crank sensor, pre cat lamba sensor (it was bringing this up as a fault), coil pack, plugs, leads, I've had it in a garage where they had checked the timing and said its all spot on!
the car is fitted with catcam 428's, ktec map, ktec full ultra exhaust system and a decat and air filter

we really can't find the problem, had the car on the rollers today to see how seriously lacking in power she is and she mad 105bhp at the wheels which you can see if awful, you don't have any power band till 5300rpm... Any ideas please help!!!!!

 

[l33th3tr33]

What was the power at the flywheel?

Air leak?

Checked the spark?

 

[willow]

150 I think, no air leaks, sparks fine, it drives fine is just as flat as a fart till 5k

 

[Carlv8415]

VVT solenoid? 5K is when VVT is activated. Is it fine up until 5K?

 

[Adamm.]

A specialist check the timing?

 

[willow]

It's crap till 5k.. And yes a specialist he said its all spot on. It's this flywheel target which is the problem but no body has a clue that I have spoke to, even ktec when I rang them said its rare for a 182 it's only the newer ones that suffer with that problem

 

[MartinR]

VVT solenoid? 5K is when VVT is activated. Is it fine up until 5K?

Vvt isn't activated at 5k. Its more between 1 and 2k iirc

 

[willow]

Would that not come up on a diagnostics? If that was gone what would it do and where is that located?

 

[Carlv8415]

Would that not come up on a diagnostics? If that was gone what would it do and where is that located?

On the left hand side of the engine on top just before the cam cover, it has a plug on it. I could be wrong about it being that. Somebody will be along in a bit who knows a lot more about these engines than me.

 

[Djw John]

Yeah vvt is around 1800rpm iirc.

If the timing is definitely correct then my next thought is a broken/stuck valve. Have you compression tested it?

 

[MicKPM]

Fred at BTM is close to you or you could bring it to me in Nottingham as electrical is more my thing.

Mick

 

[willow]

Will do a compression test and have never heard of the vvt is that a common fault? What symptoms would you have if that sensor has failed?

 

[Tony Hunter]

Before you throw anymore wasted money on it. Either take it to Fred at BTM Brum or Mick in Notts, these stupid little french cars have quirkey engines and electrics on them.

 

[ben lee]

more info needed was it all fine then suddenly lost power? or lost power over time? anything been done to the car eg changed cams now makes less power? has the car been mapped? did the rolling road get a copy of the AFR?

 

[willow]

It's never been right since I've had it but because I was used to a diesel I didn't pick up on it being not right, I've googled the fault and its brought my car up several times so it seems it has had the problem for quite a while before I got it, and I can't afford to take it to a garage again yet.. My chap can compression test it for me.. And the printouts at my parents in the car so ill check on that tomorrow

 

[MartinR]

www.totalcontrolracing.com

The above is the only place i would be going mate. They have raced rs clios since 2001 in the uk clio cup.

Just off jct 9 of the m6. Give Lee a call he will see you right and you won't end up with an astronomical bill....

 

[pepinosport]

i had the same problem two weeks ago (but my car is 100% stock). it was really difficult to pass 5000rpm, specially in 4th and 5th gears. it felt like a 100bhp car. sometimes went in limp mode as well.
check the throttle body connector, mine had a dodgy pin and it was sorted in 20min

 

[willow]

It drives like a 1litre till 5k and then it really pulls and feels quicker but it's up till the 5k I have the problem. Going to try tht camshaft sensor today

 

[Tony Hunter]

So you are going to waste even more money, by just sticking random parts on. Well done.

 

[willow]

I got one locally of a car I know that runs well for a tenner so thought it was worth a try! It's still throwing up this crank sensor fault and flywheel target fault. I don't have the money to take it to a specialist at the moment!!

 

[Tony Hunter]

Fair enough.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Rouge fault code because timing is miles out is my guess

 

[willow]

Had the timing checked at a garage though? The cams wouldn't affect how it needs to be timed would it?

 

[MicKPM]

Not really as they're designed to be installed using stock timing points.

I'd still want a genuine, un-biased opinion on the camshaft timing relative to the crank position followed by a proper data logging session if all was good in that area.

 

[willow]

It's been suggested by ktec who did the work to the car a few years ago that maybe there's a chip out of a tooth on the flywheel? Hence the flywheel target fault and the crank sensor constantly thrown up on the diagnostics?
My mechanic timed up my old 172 due to the timing being out but he said this one is 100% spot on he's checked it with a camera tool or something aswell to make sure, I'm not sure offhand what he used lol

 

[MicKPM]

Then it 100% needs data logging amd someone with the ability to see what the various signals are doing.

Personally I'd be very suprised if a so called "chip" in the flywheels trigger pattern caused enough of a signal incoherence especially at that frequency.

Mick

 

[Djw John]

Take it to mick.

 

[james_clio_sport]

what garage did you take it too mate??

 

[willow]

One down the back of McDonald's and total petrol station in hoo brook

 

[SBV116]

Take it to mick or Fred. Will save you in the long run.

 

[james_clio_sport]

my mate works at cooper and chin..... knows a hell of a lot about clios as he owned a 182 cup before... i will try and get hold of him and pass you his number...!!! he has gone all the work on my clio and my pass cars but im lucky now as i work for renault so get all mine down at my work for nothing bar paying for parts lol

 

[Dan@SJM]

So a non specialist has checked the timing? I'm with Fred on it being cam timing.

 

[MartinR]

Take it to mick or Fred. Will save you in the long run.

Or cost you

 

[willow]

He's worked on lots of them and rebuilt another 182 recently so knows what he's doing! The fault is to do with this crank sensor and flywheel target that no body seems to know about! I don't have the money to spend on it atm so was after advice if anyone else has had these faults.. If I had the spare cash I would of just took it straight to them! Ive already took it to a Renault specialist and they couldn't find the fault either

 

[MicKPM]

Or cost you

Careful Martin, i don't know what you are getting at here so what are you trying to say about me and my business with that line or would you sooner he take it to TCR because they race Clio's and won't charge him a penny either?

Don't be afraid to say what you think because I'm not!

He's worked on lots of them and rebuilt another 182 recently so knows what he's doing! The fault is to do with this crank sensor and flywheel target that no body seems to know about! I don't have the money to spend on it atm so was after advice if anyone else has had these faults.. If I had the spare cash I would of just took it straight to them! Ive already took it to a Renault specialist and they couldn't find the fault either

Oh well that's super then, he's rebuilt a 182 so he obviously has the knowledge, experience and equipment to diagnose an electrical issue like this... I guess we just plug in a code reader or CLIP and it tells us what is wrong and exactly how to fix it? I know the issue is to do with the crank position relative to the trigger pattern. As said earlier It NEEDS the timing confirming by an unbiased party regardless of it already being checked before scoping the crank position signals to see if any errors are found in the generated waveforms to decide if its a mechanical fault or electrical (including wiring related).

I don't know which Renault Specialist you went to previously either but if they couldn't find a problem with something simple like a poorly running X65 then they're not very good at their job (or they're afraid to say it's beyond their ability). Like it or not, unless you have access to some pretty expensive equipment (an oscilloscope with at least two channels for one) you are going to have to pay to get this issue fixed as hope/blind guessing is unlikely to pinpoint it unless as Fred and Dan have said the timing is, upon inspection wrong.

Mick

 

[Dan@SJM]

Even if the timing is out, it's still not a home fix.

If you feel the flywheel is chipped, buy another flywheel and fit it at home? By the time you've spent the money on the clutch/flywheel/bolts it would probably have worked out cheaper to take it to Mick, Fred or myself.

 

[Harbinger]

Dude you got an RS Tuner? I'm sure that pulls the engine timing up ( Won't fix it ) and it does live data? if you can do a run with it flat out and take some screen shots, post them up and we can compare if you can't afford to take it to anyone.

 

[MartinR]

Woh Mick it isn't like that. Its how you took it lol!!

But it could end up being costly dependant on the problem is the point om making. Also he can take it where he likes doesn't bother me

 

[MicKPM]

Woh Mick it isn't like that. Its how you took it lol!!

It read like a dig to me Martin - maybe because I've been at work since 5am? If not then I appologise but I take my business very seriously as its taken me years to build.

 

[MartinR]

No worries Mick.