Clio Air box development

[TOGUSA]

right more on this:

over the weekend iv been experimenting with various standard air box configurations
so far this is what iv found, using a standard 172 airbox with a KTR panel filter and standard inlet elbow, and an outside air temperature of 15 degrees C and an engine coolent temperature of 86 degrees

no CAF: inlet temperature ranges from 68-78 degrees C, car feels very sluggish in every gear, big lag gap with foot planted,

standard CAF: inlet temperature ranges from 58-64 degrees C, car feels back to normal, pulls nicely but still has a slight gap with foot planted,

at this point i took the plunge and bored a 83mm hole into the original main inlet hole on the airbox, from here i fixed a 80 x 30mm pipe to give my self something to mount onto,
from there i attached a 80mm silver ducting CAF, this was ran down to the original area of the existing CAF but approx 8" lower just past the horn, but not replacing the fog light.
and also removed the plastic cover from the engine as i felt this could potentiality hold a lot of heat in.

uprated CAF: inlet temperature ranges from 38-54 degress C, car feels very responsive, pulls very well in all gears compaired to standard CAF, almost eliminated any lag from foot being planted,

so there you have it, with an uprated 80mm CAF and removing the engine cover, iv managed to get the inlet manifold tempuratures down by 20 degrees, all tempuratures where taken on the fly via the OBD2 port using a laptop to monitor, engine coolent tempurature, manifold pressure, engine revs, inlet manifold tempurature, and throttle position sensor,
the softwhere was proscan 5.5 registered version

i dont know how this translates onto a rolling road, but i do have a benchmark RR from the east angla RR day where the standard airbox with standard CAF made 162.1bhp and 141lb torque
i shall try and get some comparison charts made from the data i collected
and also some pictures of the set up so that it might help people in the future.

Dave

 

[TOGUSA]

im going to try and get hold of some PTFE gaskets at some point in the near future and also due to the amount of heat being generated by the radiator top pipe i was thinking of placing a heat sheild on the base of the airbox to try and lower tempuratures further,

iv been reading on a lot of the mg forums, they smooth the insides of the airbox, remove all the internal fins to smooth out the airflow,
has anyone attempted this before?

 

[hill_power_clio]

Hi mate;

Fristly - come to me for your PTFE gaskets. Heat Sheild could make a difference but obviously you dont want to use something that will absorb the heat.

Secondly - smoothing inside of the airbox - I don't see it making much difference but FYI I did do it on my V6 Golf Airbox along with an 80mm CAF and it seems to work a treat. It can't make things worse thats for sure as you will still have enough turblence generated from the shape/rough surfaces left from smoothing out the airbox. (Got a dremel for this job and it was spot on).

 

[TOGUSA]

i was defendantly thinking of you for the gasket lol, as for the heat shield iv got a sheet of 1mm stainless and was planning on shaping a bit to conform to the ruff shape of the box but held it off the box with spacers so there is like a 10mm air gap to provide more insulation and reflect more heat than transfer it,

as for the smoothing of the box i think it will take a lot of work due to the shape of the box itself, but i think a dremal and a wood chissel would make quick work of it,
i think i will attempt this over the next bank holiday when iv got another long weekend to have the car off the road,

by how much has the ptfe gaskets proven to lower the manifold temp?

 

[hill_power_clio]

Excellent lol

Just looking back through the forum these are some of the results though there are snippets across many threads....

"....a good 4-6 degrees C lower throughout all the time compared to before! I did the same drive as before, with the outside temp exactly the same at 8 degrees C...and in town it was noticably 4 degrees lower than recorded temp of previous test(doing 30-40mph...roundabouts etc), as moved out of town doing 60-70mph constantly, the temp had dropped 5 full degrees constant compared to the recorded temp of the same test before!" Dan172

“Before the gaskets were fitted I left the car idling for about 10mins and inlet air temp was around 63c. About 10pm when the outside air temp was about 17c I left the car idling for 25mins and it only just touched 50c! I'll do a full report tomorrow though.” “The cardbroad ranged from 60c on idle to mid 30s when booting it. The PTFE was 50c to mid 30s even with the warmer weather. I was also giving it far more stick and say in slow traffic or at traffic lights it was rising MUCH slower than with the cardboard gaskets, I was quite surprised.” AmDaMan

....as for the heat shield iv got a sheet of 1mm stainless and was planning on shaping a bit to conform to the ruff shape of the box but held it off the box with spacers so there is like a 10mm air gap to provide more insulation and reflect more heat than transfer it,

As for this mate not so sure myself. What you could essentially be making there is a radiator with an area for the air to just get hot - like a blanket of hot air. It may be more beneficial to make this out of plastic or indeed use the stainless on one side to reflect the heat but then use something like a sheet of plastic/PTFE on the other side - this way you are reflecting using the metal but not letting any heat transfer through. I guess it is all just a case of trial and look at the temp readings with that. Obviously it isn't going to make a huge difference so you will need to study in controlled conditions with minimal to no variants.

 

[Riley!]

good little read. Fitted a CAF from a76mm trumpet to bottom feed on standard box at weekend and the car feels a lot happier. Was thinking myself of using the other side feed on box for another cold air feed to fog light or horn area as I removed acoustic valve.

Even though about boring out the bottom feed to fit a 76 mm trumpet on the inside and attaching the feed from my 76mm trumpet in lower grill to it

 

[TOGUSA]

i thought about the lower feed but due to the shape of the air box i found it a lot easer to place the 80mm hole in the location of the original main feed on the side,
also when it comes to fitting back into the car, the main feed is ideally placed for the 80mm CAF but the lower one has the gearbox and everything to contend with,
its a bit more involved. if you could post up a few pics that would be brill if you took any, no worries if you dont want to move it lol,
ill try and get some of mine up soon

 

[Riley!]

what you after pics of fella? location of trumpet, or where the tubing is laid. Didnt take any at time, but can see what I cando without removing airbox again

 

[Riley!]

and before you ask yes it was very fooking tight and a bumper off job lol

 

[steve32c]

This is how its sorted on my car.

Did some testing on RStuner CAI vs stock and IMO there is no difference between these two EXCEPT temp of air in the manifold. So some sort of heat shield - resistance material ( no metal ) is a must have when thinking about this.
On a hot summer day it makes a significant difference and a nice sound too

Along those lines ie an open filter (one of your choice) for the noise - just need to make a good shield with possibly a hole or two for some cold air feeds that you could slot into the gap between engine and filter to keep the filter side cooler

 

[joker83]

Hi...sorry for my english...for my car i have study this airbox....

The airbox derive to Fiat Ducato...i'ts 10 liters...the original Phase 1 it's 8,5liters

For the aspiration it's ia have 2 hole to 55mm...i prefere 2 small hole because i think 1 bigger the air slow down...I have think at water...

Now i ha ve put 2 little horn on the tube...

 

[TOGUSA]

that looks like a waste paper bin lol, sorry just and observation,

how dose it feel in comparison to the ph1 box, is having the extra 2lt of space really worth it?
has it changed the feel of the driving compared?

looks like a good attempt

 

[joker83]

that looks like a waste paper bin lol, sorry just and observation,

how dose it feel in comparison to the ph1 box, is having the extra 2lt of space really worth it?
has it changed the feel of the driving compared?

looks like a good attempt

No problem....look i'ts not very good...

The different in the street....i think the torque it's improved to 3000-5000 rpm...

 

[Fredy]

Along those lines ie an open filter (one of your choice) for the noise - just need to make a good shield with possibly a hole or two for some cold air feeds that you could slot into the gap between engine and filter to keep the filter side cooler

Cold air feed is up to do next. Its gonna come through fog light hole.

 

[Domobaby]

I am going to put a cold air feed on I think and then just replace the panel filter. Got no idea where to start though.

Is it possible to run a CAF to a deflector behind the grille?

 

[Greeny.]

I am going to put a cold air feed on I think and then just replace the panel filter. Got no idea where to start though.

Is it possible to run a CAF to a deflector behind the grille?

Dont think you can get it there mate on a ph2 at least. I have going down to my fog directly into my ph2 airbox and I lost around 3mpg. I did block up the rear feed as well though, which im going to open up again. Think I lost power on my RR day as the airfeed from my fog was such a long run and there wasnt any air being pushed into it lol :/

 

[Tucker]

LOL, you blocked up the rear feed????


so you're total inlet diameter was from the pathetic oval feed at the front of the box?????


and you had the feed all the way to the fog???

 

[Yellow Dave]

Not sure on the layout of the 1.6 16v engine layout. Try and post up a pic of the bay.

With 1*2's, the CAF is normally run from the polwer grille or from the passenger side fog light.

 

[Tav]

Thought I'd throw an image into the discussion, Jabba Sport G40 heat shields. Available for a number of VW's...1.8T/G40/G60 etc.

http://www.jabbasport.com/store/media/gbu0/prodxl/on car green 840x630.jpg

 

[Yellow Dave]

K&N do a similar heat shield with one of there kits. Easy to make if your handy with cutting plastics and a glue gun. lol

 

[delcbr]

i think placing metal heat shields in the engine bay is a big no no!!!!because they get hot too! and heat up whatever is arounds them.

i agree with the other post saying that if you have similar components to the itg then how can the itg be so much better taking into account value for money!

surely someone on here who has bought an itg maxogen has performed a before and after at a rolling road to see if it was worth the money.......anyone?

i dont believe manufacturers claims....whoever makes the boldest claims will sell more look at cam manufacturers for example if you were to pin them down oin there claims they will say ah only in conjuction with other mods!

plus having a free flow airfilter will let in dirty air compared to a normal paper filter ok paper will clog up much earlier but is it really worth it...this will lead to valve seat wear lending to the valves sinking into their seats over time for all the gain youl get fom it stick to paper filter with good cai's just my 2 pence worth!
afaik best mod on car starts with a well flowed head with 3 angle valve seats and 2 angled valves for starters say i bought that itg and the btb exhaust i think that wouldcost approx £800 do you think i would gain as much as 8 bhp from them?
if you got a properly done cylinder head then i know your looking at 10% gain on 4 valve per cylinder engines.if you can get away with fitting larger valves and increasing port dia then 15% is possible prob cost about £1000 better than the exhaust and filter combo i think.
some of what i learned comes from here comes accross as someone in the know who tells it like it is well worth reading up on!!! http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/gentune.htm
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/

regarding inlet manifolds i read this on his site:
By contrast the plenum system on the Peugeot 1.3 TU Rallye engine is so good that TB's only add another couple of bhp. They do improve torque in the lower part of the rev range though. Copyright David Baker and Puma Race Engines seems like these inlet manifolds that icarus is making could be the next big thing!

 

[ChrisPearson]

any updates on this?and what is the best CAF's to replac e the standard ones with?

 

[elba7rini]

Fantastic thread guys, keep it up

I live in the hottest area in the world, in the summer temp would range from 35 C to 50 C in the afternoon !!

in the winter it ranges from 5 C to 25 C, is it worth it to put some CAF to the front grill with a panel filter only? or it's not worth it?

and can anyone give me a link to a post explaining how to do a CAF to the front grill with pics ?