CLIO IV RS - Trophy from page 111

[Gorms]

Where did you get that quote?

I can get a Fiesta ST for £11,600, bargain!

EMC, i`m still uk based so only accepted for the tax paid deals. I would love to be abroad, so many guaranteed buy back deals i would do. Are they still doing the 135 msport deal?

 

[borekb]

One thing to note about EDC - it can transfer maximum of 240 Nm of torque. Maybe you can educate me here - does that mean that the engine chipped to 250 HP (achievable with this unit) will not feel any more powerful in lower revs due to the torque limit? I guess it will "only" improve the top speed?

 

[Matt26]

I bet you're amusing and interesting to sit next to during dinner parties.

I thought all that would have been bloody obvious, but the way some people have gone mad about wheel-mounted paddles, I thought it was about time to explain the thinking behind it.

People love me at dinner parties - I'm f**king hilarious.

 

[Matt W]

One thing to note about EDC - it can transfer maximum of 240 Nm of torque. Maybe you can educate me here - does that mean that the engine chipped to 250 HP (achievable with this unit) will not feel any more powerful in lower revs due to the torque limit? I guess it will "only" improve the top speed?

It means the gearbox will explode into lots of tiny expensive peices.

 

[Gorms]

It means the gearbox will explode into lots of tiny expensive peices.

Pretty standard for a Clio then

 

[jamier27]

Or is that a ploy to put people of mapping and tuning them?

​

 

[Munson]

Or is that a ploy to put people of mapping and tuning them?

​

If it is, it'll be because if they do, the welds on the intake will blow and/or the gearbox will break in half, so it's largely irrelevant?

 

[steve32c]

See what k-tec or RS-tuning manage to squeeze from one (and how long it'll still be running for if gearbox load issues are true)

 

[jamier27]

Remind me of who designed and manufactures the engine and gearbox again?

 

[Munson]

I believe the engine is a Nissan unit and the gearbox is Getrag. The box will likely be built to Renault specification though to be fair, and I'm not aware of any guarantee that the engine will have been specified to handle much in the way of increased boost. Time will tell on both fronts I guess.

 

[Jaff.]

Renault don't do stuff like mountune do for ford do they?

i.e preserved warranty with mods

 

[borekb]

I think DSG has about the same torque limitation but people do remapping on GTIs right? I don't know much about it so I'm hoping someone would explain the mechanics to me.

 

[jamier27]

People run a lot of power through the dsg box so if the original limit claims are close to the standard power then maybe it will be fine for another 100bhp?

I just think to make a gearbox with safe limits so close to cars factory limits is just asking for problems ? Ah yeah it's a Renault blah blah

 

[Munson]

The only sure thing is that they won't have spent a penny more than necessary in developing or specifying components.

 

[Jaff.]

People run a lot of power through the dsg box so if the original limit claims are close to the standard power then maybe it will be fine for another 100bhp?

I just think to make a gearbox with safe limits so close to cars factory limits is just asking for problems ? Ah yeah it's a Renault blah blah

I have 3 units for you...

​jc5

 

[jamier27]

What's jc5? Mini gearbox?

 

[Munson]

Clio gearbox?

 

[Jaff.]

Its a Renault gearbox that's on most of the 2.0 Renault engines of the Clio era.

​iirc it's rated to 150nm and don't the clios make near enough that?

 

[Munson]

About 150lbs IIRC.

 

[Jaff.]

Must have been 200nm then. So if a Clio is healthy creating 150ftlbs then its pushing the limit of the box as standard.

​proof if you will that Renault don't mind limiting the cars performance with the box lol

 

[Munson]

I certainly would not be buying one of these with the intention of winding the boost up. Too risky until more is known about the sturdiness of the box.

 

[daydotz]

You bumping the A1 already?

Not yet but theirs no harm in looking

 

[jamier27]

Must have been 200nm then. So if a Clio is healthy creating 150ftlbs then its pushing the limit of the box as standard. ​proof if you will that Renault don't mind limiting the cars performance with the box lol

surely huge businesses learn from there mistakes?

alfas used to rust away with a bit of light drizzle but they stated galvernising vulnerable bits and use better paint etc now there spot on IMO

​Have faith people

 

[Jaff.]

surely huge businesses learn from there mistakes?

alfas used to rust away with a bit of light drizzle but they stated galvernising vulnerable bits and use better paint etc now there spot on IMO

​Have faith people

this is the French were talking about...

not to mention from what I heared Reno are in a bit of financial trouble, so why would they spend a penny more than they have to on boxes that outperform the engine in standard guise?

 

[Munson]

TBF they did upgrade the trim specification on their Recaros when the public beta test revealed bolster wear issues. Oh no hang on...

 

[John Gordon]

surely huge businesses learn from there mistakes?

alfas used to rust away with a bit of light drizzle but they stated galvernising vulnerable bits and use better paint etc now there spot on IMO

​Have faith people

Fiat group (Fiat/Alfa/Lancia) were actually screwed over there. They bought steel off the Russians (made a deal with them for the fiat 124 or 125 iirc plans/presses which became the lada). First batch of steel was perfect, flaw free. When deal was done the Russians smelted all the left over white goods and s**t from the war and sent that over to complete the deal. This is why they literally rusted from the inside out.

Hurt them bad, pulled lancia from the UK market and as you say made sure their cars were rust proof from then out to save their rep.

Renault are different. They seem to cut corners on R&D, and they seem to avoid longevity in their cars. Almost to the point of engineering to fail. I still maintain to this day, the Clio is a s**t car. However its a s**t car that does some things extraordinarily well, which is why I love it. Its like having a really annoying arse of a girlfriend that's AMAZING in bed. You want to bin her off because your head pain is too much to handle, but every time you jump into bed with her you forget about that.

 

[Munson]

That's one hell of a story. All steel rusts. Apart from stainless steel. The zinc plating of the raw sheet, and much improved production and protection techniques, are the reasons modern cars resist rust fairly well.

 

[John Gordon]

That's one hell of a story. All steel rusts. Apart from stainless steel. The zinc plating of the raw sheet, and much improved production and protection techniques, are the reasons modern cars resist rust fairly well.

Its not like I made it up. Cant say if its 100% true but that what I learned whilst selling the things.

"Fiat and Lancia models of the 1970s were particularly infamous for rapidly succumbing to severe structural rust. This is commonly attributed to a well-documented deal made by FIAT with the Russian government for a supply of surplus Russian steel. The Russian government supplied FIAT with large quantities of steel in exchange for the rights and tooling necessary to manufacture a clone of the recently discontinued FIAT 124 (sold under the Lada and Zhiguli names). Though superficially a good deal for FIAT, who off-loaded their old design and tooling at a hefty profit, the steel they received was of an extremely poor quality. There is also anecdotal evidence that poor planning frequently left early X1/9 body-shells un-painted outside the Bertone factory before transportation to FIAT where the rusting body-shells were simply painted over"

 

[Cliotoby]

Too risky until more is known about the sturdiness of the box.

You dont think they will have learned their lessons yet then?

 

[Cliotoby]

Fiat group (Fiat/Alfa/Lancia) were actually screwed over there. They bought steel off the Russians (made a deal with them for the fiat 124 or 125 iirc plans/presses which became the lada). First batch of steel was perfect, flaw free. When deal was done the Russians smelted all the left over white goods and s**t from the war and sent that over to complete the deal. This is why they literally rusted from the inside out.

Hurt them bad, pulled lancia from the UK market and as you say made sure their cars were rust proof from then out to save their rep.

Renault are different. They seem to cut corners on R&D, and they seem to avoid longevity in their cars. Almost to the point of engineering to fail. I still maintain to this day, the Clio is a s**t car. However its a s**t car that does some things extraordinarily well, which is why I love it. Its like having a really annoying arse of a girlfriend that's AMAZING in bed. You want to bin her off because your head pain is too much to handle, but every time you jump into bed with her you forget about that.

:rofl:

 

[EmirK0]

​

Its not like I made it up. Cant say if its 100% true but that what I learned whilst selling the things.

"Fiat and Lancia models of the 1970s were particularly infamous for rapidly succumbing to severe structural rust. This is commonly attributed to a well-documented deal made by FIAT with the Russian government for a supply of surplus Russian steel. The Russian government supplied FIAT with large quantities of steel in exchange for the rights and tooling necessary to manufacture a clone of the recently discontinued FIAT 124 (sold under the Lada and Zhiguli names). Though superficially a good deal for FIAT, who off-loaded their old design and tooling at a hefty profit, the steel they received was of an extremely poor quality. There is also anecdotal evidence that poor planning frequently left early X1/9 body-shells un-painted outside the Bertone factory before transportation to FIAT where the rusting body-shells were simply painted over"

Good job this is a Fiat/Lancia forum... O' wait.
Bit in bold is the best though, nothing like credibility.

Anyway can see why the people are going towards the Fiesta ST, starting to grow on me too. Just hope for Renaults sake them making the R.S version less hardcore pays off for them.

 

[John Gordon]

​

Good job this is a Fiat/Lancia forum... O' wait.
Bit in bold is the best though, nothing like credibility.

Anyway can see why the people are going towards the Fiesta ST, starting to grow on me too. Just hope for Renaults sake them making the R.S version less hardcore pays off for them.

Yup, your right. Its not a fiat forum. I thought it was a pretty interesting story and though I would share, I like cars on a whole and find interesting politics like this really cool. I shall refrain from such activities in the future, i am dreadfully sorry to have offended you.

​ Just FYI it was part of my FIAT training when I worked for a main dealer many moons ago. But, as I did not do the transaction myself, nor can vouch for said quality of steel I can 100% say its true. Manufacturers do tend to like brain washing sales staff.

 

[Munson]

You dont think they will have learned their lessons yet then?

Honestly? No not really. I'm sure it's a great car but would anyone here really be surprised if the steering wheel starts melting in two years, or the chairs start falling apart in one? Take a look at every Mk II 3-door Clio - passenger door - I've never seen one that fits properly. None of them match the bodyside rear quarter at the bottom.

For all the years they produced that car, not once did someone say "come on lads let's get the shims out and fix that door fit problem" I know of no other car manufacturer that would allow that to roll off the end of the line, so like I said. No. No I don't.

 

[Cliotoby]

It was more of a rhetorical question but for once I agree with you.

 

[Munson]

So for once you are correct? Lol

 

[Matthew]

Honestly? No not really. I'm sure it's a great car but would anyone here really be surprised if the steering wheel starts melting in two years, or the chairs start falling apart in one? Take a look at every Mk II 3-door Clio - passenger door - I've never seen one that fits properly. None of them match the bodyside rear quarter at the bottom.

For all the years they produced that car, not once did someone say "come on lads let's get the shims out and fix that door fit problem" I know of no other car manufacturer that would allow that to roll off the end of the line, so like I said. No. No I don't.

Roy you raise a good point there.

In all my Clios the glove box never aligned property either, non of them.

​How can a manufacturer let that happen, it's beyond me tbh.

 

[Munson]

The simple answer is that they do not care.

 

[Matthew]

And that's what it comes down to.

After-sales poor too by all accounts.

 

[Munson]

Ultimately, they are a huge corporation and they let a work experience guy publish the brochure for a brand new car because everyone else was on holiday.

 

[MarkCup]

The steering wheel WILL melt. 100% guaranteed.

Enough went on 172/182s for them to know they had a problem. Did they fix it for the 197/200s?

Nope. My current one gas gone the exact same way.

Still they don't acknowledge it as a problem, so why should they change it for the new one?

£21k for a new car knowing the steering wheel will be scrap in 3 years?

LOL