CLIO MK2 Ergonomic Problems?

[garyjpaterson]

Hi all! Got an odd request here, im studying Automotive Design at Swansea Met Uni, and over the holidays we have been set a group project.


We we have to do it find ergonomic problems with one of the group members cars, unfortunately we dont have access right now so im asking you lot!


The car we are doing is a MK 2 Clio, non facelift model. What problems do you have, ergonomic wise? That could be seating position, confusing controls/dials, things being positioned awkwardly, anything really.


Doesn't have to be in the interior either, is the bootlid too high, too low? Oil easy and simple to top up? things like that.


Anyway, thanks a lot and im looking forward to your responses!

 

[MartinR]

So anything that affects the process of driving it?

How long are you on holiday for? This will be a never ending project.

 

[garyjpaterson]

Yeah pretty much. Like is there anything that you would change to make it more comfortable, simple? And its not a huge project, we just have to choose one ergonomic problem each and come up with a solution. And they dont mind if the soloution is not doable, as long as you justify it. But as long as i can get some problems with the clio, that would be great!

 

[BlackGoldMatt]

My point would be that the seating position is too high (my cars lowered aswell!)

 

[garyjpaterson]

Yeah, i thought that would be a point. For me, its just fine, but im pretty small. I think the cars probably marketed at females, so it suits small men and girls just fine.

 

[Amos91]

Oil dipstick is in a pretty awkward place on the sports.

Not a massive problem but the full beam stalk is annoying. Pull half way to flash, fully pull back to turn on. Means its easy to blind oncoming traffic briefly. Also when the lights are on AUTO there is no half way flash.

The system used on other cars like Vauxhall is better. Pull toward to flash. Push away to switch on.

EDIT: Im 6ft 4... So to get a decent distance from the wheel my legs are bent far up. Retractable steering wheel solution?

 

[garyjpaterson]

Yes this stuff is perfect! Doesnt have to be huge problems, just things you would have changed if you designed it! Thanks guys, keep it coming.

 

[BeXE]

How long have you got? - The steering wheel is far too large- The seat is set too high- The seat back adjustability is crap- The pedals are too small and close together

 

[garyjpaterson]

Em has to be in by halfway through January, loads of time to work over the holidays! Also its interesting how you think the pedals are too close together! I thought they were fine, but i was used to driving a Pug 106, where the pedals are pretty much on top of each other, but one person from our group thought that too. Thanks for the input!

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

LOL at the pedals being too close together, drive a saxo, thats close together.

 

[MarkCup]

For me the main ergonomic issue is the reach to the gearlever.

I'm 1.85m tall so have to have the seat a fair way back to have any sort of comfort with the pedals. The trouble with that is that to engage 3rd gear, it's then such a reach I have to lean forward in the seat to do so.

Not so much an issue with standard inertia reel seatbelts but a right PITA with a securely fastened harness.

 

[Jordanb29]

There is a wiper problem when you use it to clean your windows. When you turn the windscreen jets on to clean the windows.. the wipers go on for about 5seconds then they stop... but then 2 seconds later it comes back on to do 1 more wipe over!! It irritates me especially in winter as once you have just cleaned the windows the crap from the road is on the window within a second which then the wiper smudges it into the window. small but very annoying problem.

Also the cup holders.. pain in the arse and dont hold a bottle, can hold a can but thats a pain as if you have 1 can in there and go round a sharp corner it doesnt stay up and goes all over the holder...

 

[Sam@NP]

For me the main ergonomic issue is the reach to the gearlever.

I'm 1.85m tall so have to have the seat a fair way back to have any sort of comfort with the pedals. The trouble with that is that to engage 3rd gear, it's then such a reach I have to lean forward in the seat to do so.

Not so much an issue with standard inertia reel seatbelts but a right PITA with a securely fastened harness.

This. Cars should have moving peddle boxes and steering wheels not moving seats.

 

[peanuthead]

CUP HOLDERS!!!!!
The most annoying thing by far!! you cannot get anything other than a small can in the, makes McDonalds drive throughs a complete nightmare. I know it sounds stupid but I bet there isnt a member on here that uses their clio daily that hasnt swore about the cup holders!

 

[Heez]

Pedals are positioned to the right of the steering wheel. Never noticed it till I drove a different car.

Next time you're out you'll notice it. Gives you more Gangsta lean y0!

Also, gear leaver is too far away if you're a taller chap. Cup holders more so. Seat is too high. Handles on door is too inboard, if it's windy it's harder to keep door from blowing open.

 

[garyjpaterson]

Nice one, getting some good suggestions here.

 

[Daniel]

If you park facing up a hill and want to tilt a three doors front seats forward to do something in the back, they don't lock and they keep sliding backwards. It gets on my tits.

 

[FatRS]

You have to look yo the right of the large steering wheel to see the cruise control button, then press the buttons on the steering wheel. Why not all in one place on the steering wheel?

 

[Steven103]

I know you've asked for a non face lift, i.e. a Ph1 but, for the Ph2 at least one design oversight that sticks in my mind:

Brake fluid reservior is inaccessable when the engine cover (held in by female torx bolts) is in place.

Many people will go "wot u moaning bout 4 bolts dat takes 3 seconds" but the difference between a simple DIY proceedure being "unscrew a cap, pour liquid" and "identify and obtain the correct size torx socket and remove 4x bolts in order to remove..." is massive when it comes to designing components for a mass-market road car. Furthermore (and this is turning into a rant ) is that less than 2 foot away the engine oil top up cap is also inaccessible because it's underneath the engine cover, if it weren't for Renault implementing a (relatively poor come to think of it, as you now have to mould two parts instead of one...) perfectly adequete solution.

 

[garyjpaterson]

I know you've asked for a non face lift, i.e. a Ph1 but, for the Ph2 at least one design oversight that sticks in my mind:

Brake fluid reservior is inaccessable when the engine cover (held in by female torx bolts) is in place.

Many people will go "wot u moaning bout 4 bolts dat takes 3 seconds" but the difference between a simple DIY proceedure being "unscrew a cap, pour liquid" and "identify and obtain the correct size torx socket and remove 4x bolts in order to remove..." is massive when it comes to designing components for a mass-market road car. Furthermore (and this is turning into a rant ) is that less than 2 foot away the engine oil top up cap is also inaccessible because it's underneath the engine cover, if it weren't for Renault implementing a (relatively poor come to think of it, as you now have to mould two parts instead of one...) perfectly adequete solution.

Thanks, are these problems exclusive to the PH2 models? If they are i cant really use this.

 

[Chip-mk1]

On a phase2 the brake fluid filler cap is a total pain as well, but I wouldnt have thought that was classed as driver ergonomics?

 

[garyjpaterson]

Yeah it is probably pushing it, but its good to have as much choice as possible.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Really minor one, but the phase 1 172 gear lever has nothing on it to tell you where to find reverse, confuses people the first time they drive a car.

 

[garyjpaterson]

Really minor one, but the phase 1 172 gear lever has nothing on it to tell you where to find reverse, confuses people the first time they drive a car.

Thats a good one, is it just the 172 though? The car we are studying is just the standard 1.2 :/

 

[Steven103]

That's the thing though - is it minor? Actually that's not the word I'm looking for to be fair. Cost of 10 gearbox warranty claims vs cost of adding an "R" to the already existing "1, 2, 3, 4, 5" on every Clio sold... is what I'm getting at.

EDIT: Sorry just seen your last post about it being a 1.2. Can't comment on where the brake fluid reserviour is.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Thats a good one, is it just the 172 though? The car we are studying is just the standard 1.2 :/

Dunno, look at the lever and see, lol

Ive only ever owned the 172 models so am talking from that point of view as will a lot of other people on here .(this is clio sport not clio shopping after all, lol)

Also in that respect, the driving position, people will often be talking about from a performance point of view with their comments so again you will need to decide if they are still relevant to your particular assignment or not.

Like you say though, if you get 100 suggestions and only 5 are good, thats a top mark im sure, so worth you sorting the wheat from the chafe.

 

[garyjpaterson]

Dunno, look at the lever and see, lol

Ive only ever owned the 172 models so am talking from that point of view as will a lot of other people on here .(this is clio sport not clio shopping after all, lol)

Also in that respect, the driving position, people will often be talking about from a performance point of view with their comments so again you will need to decide if they are still relevant to your particular assignment or not.

Like you say though, if you get 100 suggestions and only 5 are good, thats a top mark im sure, so worth you sorting the wheat from the chafe.

Yeah, we dont have access to the car now, which is why im asking you guys. There are a lot of complaints about the seating height, which is an easy fix, just make them height adjustable, so those like me can still enjoy the higher position yet will appeal to those with different needs. Im just getting a feel for what people thoughts are on the clios, then me and my group will go through and pick out those which are most suitable. Everyones been a great help already, hopefully there are more things people can think of.

 

[BoatNonce]

The horn really annoys me because when you go to beep someone, you invariably end up indicating.

 

[sbridgey]

One of my housemates did her masters in this area, problems are such as the seat is only suitable for small people due to it not going back far enough or go low enough causing legs to have to be bent in ways that are not comfortable or correct posture. The pedal box causes your legs to not be in a straight position whilst using the accelerator pedal again a posture problem. the steering wheel lacks reach adjustment again causing poor seating position possibly a badly arched back or cramped legs. Just to name a few ergonomic issues with the clio.

 

[Daniel]

The seats on all clios (Except Awfulthentique - base model) are height adjustable, they just don't go down low enough.

I've got a Cup at the moment with the seat spacers removed (so 10mm, 15mm max!) and its so much better.

 

[garyjpaterson]

One of my housemates did her masters in this area, problems are such as the seat is only suitable for small people due to it not going back far enough or go low enough causing legs to have to be bent in ways that are not comfortable or correct posture. The pedal box causes your legs to not be in a straight position whilst using the accelerator pedal again a posture problem. the steering wheel lacks reach adjustment again causing poor seating position possibly a badly arched back or cramped legs. Just to name a few ergonomic issues with the clio.

Thanks so much! This is really useful!

 

[Ezra-RS]

There is a wiper problem when you use it to clean your windows. When you turn the windscreen jets on to clean the windows.. the wipers go on for about 5seconds then they stop... but then 2 seconds later it comes back on to do 1 more wipe over!! It irritates me especially in winter as once you have just cleaned the windows the crap from the road is on the window within a second which then the wiper smudges it into the window. small but very annoying problem.

I actually like that Renault did that.. I always get annoyed that after the screen has been wiped, unwiped washer fluid comes up (when driving on motorway f.e.). I always have to manually wipe one more time because of this but not in the clio

 

[Gaz_]

The seats on all clios (Except Awfulthentique - base model) are height adjustable, they just don't go down low enough.

I've got a Cup at the moment with the seat spacers removed (so 10mm, 15mm max!) and its so much better.

should be the first mod to any mk2 imo, makes a good difference!

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

Really minor one, but the phase 1 172 gear lever has nothing on it to tell you where to find reverse, confuses people the first time they drive a car.

There was a sticker on the wind screen (bottom centre) showing 1-5 and where reverse is on my old Phase 1 172. Unsure if it was factory oem?

 

[Jonnio]

Really minor one, but the phase 1 172 gear lever has nothing on it to tell you where to find reverse, confuses people the first time they drive a car.

Off topic but my Punto has a diagram on the rear of the stick surround.

​1 3 5
2 4 6 R







It's a 5 speed.

 

[realnumber 1]

CUP HOLDERS!!!!!
The most annoying thing by far!! you cannot get anything other than a small can in the, makes McDonalds drive throughs a complete nightmare. I know it sounds stupid but I bet there isnt a member on here that uses their clio daily that hasnt swore about the cup holders!

Agreed!

The car has a few other issues but this one is the worst. You can't get anything bigger than a small coffee without the top popping off and spilling everywhere. And it can be awkward to get in/out when in 5th.
Not to mention you have to put a cloth or something in the other holder if you want to get round any corners without it falling over lol.

 

[riz]

My point would be that the seating position is too high (my cars lowered aswell!)

Last time i checked lowering the suspension still meant i sat i the same place and the huge steering wheel was still to close to my knees.

:rasp:

 

[ekaJ]

Glovebox doesn't sit flush, does my nut in.

 

[J.B.]

Gearstick (especially in 1st gear) is too far away for tall people to comfortably reach.

 

[Barrie.]

Armrest is too low!