cobra x-low subframe question?

[maynard]

this is the picture that cobra sent me for the x-low subframe for the clio 52 plate.

can someone just confirm that the side mounts fit in between them two thick bars going across the two ends.

looking at the picture there are four bolt holes in a square - id imagine for the side mounts/seats, but will them bars going across get in the way at all?

looking at the pics in the link below, that fred posted up a while back, them thick bars going across seem to be underneath compared to the pic that cobra sent me.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=227578&highlight=cobra+subframe+side+mount

what do we think?

 

[maynard]

anyone?

 

[DannyR]

It does appear to be wrong yes :s

 

[rich_y2]

I've got a pair of the cobra low subframes on order, due any day now... not for sidemounts but should be able to see if they look like the pic you have (hopefully that's not one they are sending me. Like you say it looks wrong).

 

[maynard]

At least you guys see it as being wrong too! Im gonna have to call them again tomorrow. They should be other way so side mount can bolt to them surely?!

 

[Fred@BTM]

mine don't have those bits!

 

[Steviant]

The right angled lengths are welded on in the wrong place. Should be underneath not above as they are in that pic.

 

[maynard]

thanks guys at least im not going mad then, right off to phone cobra.

 

[maynard]

update..

spoke to cobra. apparently the subframe in the pic they sent me is an example of the earlier version. the x-low one that we can buy now has the bars underneath as suggested above, allowing the side mounts to be bolted on correctly!

 

[dlr]

Hi. Where abouts are you buying them from, can you buy a drivers side alone and how much? I presume they are the same for a ph1 172. Is it possible to mount a seat further back with one of these, I don't need sliding/adjustment, just more leg room being 6'3 heh

cheers

 

[d4ve86]

update..

spoke to cobra. apparently the subframe in the pic they sent me is an example of the earlier version. the x-low one that we can buy now has the bars underneath as suggested above, allowing the side mounts to be bolted on correctly!

They are just trying to get out of there mistake, the xlow one has always had the bars welded underneith, that has just be made wrong and sent out without being checked, They also come with sliders as standard, did you not get those?

i had several issues with cobra in febuary with them sending me wrong subframes but there service was to quality and they made and shipped me out the correct one next day in time for my trackday.

 

[dlr]

Bit OT but your car isnt the one in this months French car mag or whatever its called which I was browsing in Tescos, that was a 182 with work done by Mark Fish and with Cobra seat mounts heh

 

[maynard]

They are just trying to get out of there mistake, the xlow one has always had the bars welded underneith, that has just be made wrong and sent out without being checked, They also come with sliders as standard, did you not get those?

i had several issues with cobra in febuary with them sending me wrong subframes but there service was to quality and they made and shipped me out the correct one next day in time for my trackday.

so in theory the ones they will send me when i order them will be correct with the bars underneath - allowing the sidemounts to be bolted correctly?

 

[maynard]

update...

cobra forwarded me new pics today of the proper x-low subframe for the clio's. for everyones reference pics below

 

[rich_y2]

So this is what they sent me but that 90 degree bent lug on the left side fouls the inner sill, not sure what it is needed for, the seat belt doesn't mount there or not on my 172 Cup... I also don't see where to mount the little micro switch on the pretensioner that seems to be on the drivers side seat belt tensioner only. Gonna need to spend some time on the phone to cobra tomorrow.

 

[maynard]

hmm interesting, let us know how you get on.

 

[rich_y2]

I dropped a couple of pm's to guys who have fitted these already, had a think last night and then fitted the first one this morning no problem. I think it was the usual excitement of fitting last night that had blinded a little bit of common sense and logical thinking.

Anyway's, the 90 degree lug fits under the inner plastic sill cover and if you cut it out there is apparently another mounting point there, not done this yet, I just tilted the frame and slid the lug under the plastic cover, the frame then fits flush to the floor.

And the pretensioner side, I was being a numpty, it mounts on the opposite side of the vertical lug than I tried last night. I think this was because I assumed the seat would fit too close at the other side (I was just trying the frames in the car before mounting the seats to them first). Anyway, plenty of clearance when it's mounted at the inner side of the lug. Put it all back together, and seems good.

My main goal was a slightly more supportive seat but also more importantly lower... I am very pleased, feels like I'm sat in the car now and not on the car if you know what I mean.

Got the passenger side to do next but having done one I expect that to be a real quick job... but it's started raining and I am meant to be working!

Oh forgot to say, the little pretensioner micro switch I was on about, make sure you drill the rivet out before you try to remove the switch from the current seat rail (it's only on the drv side), I pulled at mine and it snapped after I assumed it was simply clipped in. For now I've taped the switch shut, seems from a few other posts that this detects the seat position and stops the steering wheel air bag from deploying if someone has the seat pulled too far forward, given I'm a big chap this actually won't be an issue for me.

 

[Aron]

Are you able to get some pics up mate at all? or pm me them?

 

[maynard]

yeah would be good to see with some pics, especially about what you got confused with last night. would be helpful as im ordering these next week!

how long did they take to come through too?

 

[rich_y2]

I've done the drivers side so far so will take a couple of pics doing the passenger side hopefully on Saturday, weather permitting.

Took about 3.5 weeks to get the subframes through from Cobra, the seats came first after a couple of weeks wait.

But with my brain in gear this morning it took no time at all to fit it, just need something to cover the now exposed seat belt pretensioner, looks out of place. The frame packaging included lots of seat fabric off cuts so might see if I can fashion up a couple of matching covers to help them blend in, won't be a problem if you have harnesses.

 

[Gray]

How much did the extra low subframes cost out of interest?

I am looking into fabricating a set, but dependant on cost may purchase a set from Cobra?!

 

[maynard]

I've done the drivers side so far so will take a couple of pics doing the passenger side hopefully on Saturday, weather permitting.

Took about 3.5 weeks to get the subframes through from Cobra, the seats came first after a couple of weeks wait.

But with my brain in gear this morning it took no time at all to fit it, just need something to cover the now exposed seat belt pretensioner, looks out of place. The frame packaging included lots of seat fabric off cuts so might see if I can fashion up a couple of matching covers to help them blend in, won't be a problem if you have harnesses.

yeah im going for harnesses with these frames so i wont need to push it under the inner sill cover?

 

[rich_y2]

Correct, with harnesses you'll have to cut the sill cover to expose the mounting point, as it is on mine it's not visible. I'll sort some pics out tomorrow.

Oh, retail is 85 quid for the subframe (each), you can get them discounted from various suppliers though.

 

[Gray]

And who would these discounted suppliers be?

 

[rich_y2]

Larkspeed were offering get a subframe free if you buy 2 seats from them (so pay for only one subframe), I think Merlin Motorsport are lower than list, www.sixonetwo.co.uk where also cheaper when I spoke to them. I bought through Larkspeed because wanted seats as well.

 

[maynard]

Correct, with harnesses you'll have to cut the sill cover to expose the mounting point, as it is on mine it's not visible. I'll sort some pics out tomorrow.

Oh, retail is 85 quid for the subframe (each), you can get them discounted from various suppliers though.

yeah pics would be good thanks, demon tweeks have offered me the best deal so far.

 

[Gray]

What price has tweeks quoted you?

I am going to call them on Monday

 

[maynard]

i got a bit of discount of rrp because of trade for when i order next week.

 

[Gray]

Yeah I also get "trade" prices... But discount differs on every item, unless you get better rates than me LOL!!

 

[maynard]

who knows?!

 

[rich_y2]

A couple of subframe pics pre-fitting the passenger side seat this morning, the first one shows the subframe mounting holes lined up with the floor but the big lug being too wide for the inner sill, second image shows the subframe lug tucked away under the plastic sill cover, I did mount the seats to the frames before fitting, this was just to show where i was going wrong the other day. Last pic, seats fitted.

 

[maynard]

so you actually have to have that lug sitting under the inner sill? im having harnesses so will i still have to do that? If so, how did you get the lug under the inner sill?

edit - just re-read the above. when you lined up the holes for the frame before bolting down - how far up the inner sil does that outer lug sit?

 

[rich_y2]

the horizontal part of the lug sits about flush with the bottom of that plastic sill cover and all of the vertical part of the lug is hidden behind the sill, so may 1 1/2" to 2". I presume the harness eye bolts to it although someone did reply pm to me to say they found a mounting lug on the chassis under there and used it as an extra securing point for the frame. I didn't cut the sill or remove it to take a look so to be honest I'm not really sure what the intended use of it is.

I tilted/angled the seat and frame (I mounted the seat and frame together first before installing into the car) to poke it under but if it is a harness mounting lug you will need to expose the lug somehow, if it is a chassis mounting lug then we both perhaps need to open it up and I need to use it also.

 

[maynard]

as far as i can make out from pm'ing people and reading other's threads, the four bolts on the frame that you've secured are enough. the outer lug can be used to mount harnesses on to, but can also be hooked (if you've got that type) on to that black pipe part in your 2nd pic.

or - if you unscrew that bolt that holds that black piping into place for the seatbelt, i think you can screw any eyelet for the harnesses into there.

can anyone confirm that?

 

[rich_y2]

I'd agree with you, certainly four mounting points should be ok, afterall for me the slide runners mount to the frame with 4 bolts and the seat to the runners also with 4 bolts so there are other 'weak' points as well as the frame to floor mounting should four not be enough, also agree with your harness mounting options.

 

[Steviant]

I would use the bracket for the purpose that it was put there for. ie bolting to the car.

Harnesses should be fitted to the car not the subframe. imo

 

[maynard]

i think the two outer brackets weren't made for bolting to the car, pretty sure they were for harness attahment / seat belt pre tensioner mount point.

 

[rich_y2]

Cobra supply a nut and bolt in both lugs, certainly if one was intended for the chassis it would only need be a bolt? Also, the stock inside seat belt mounting on the std seats is on the subframe so don't see too many issues with that sort of mounting, although I do agree that typically you would think that the chassis is the place to mount the seat belts, harness or std.

Edited to add: I'm only going of what someone said about the chassis mount from that lug, I haven't seen the mount or a pic of the chassis mount to back this up, I'm not too sure why Renault would put a strengthened mounting nut in the sill and not use it, unless other models have something fitted there?

 

[Steviant]

I know what Cobra supply. I bought and fitted some too.

Do you not think that it's too much of a coincidence that the bracket aligns up perfectly with the threaded mounting hole in the sill though?

Also, did you check the nuts that hold the sliders on. The threads are not long enough to fully get the nut on it. I removed the spacers to get enough purchase on them.

As for mounting harnesses to them, I guess you can, but personally I'd prefer to take the advice of someone with over 30 years experience of building race cars, and bolt them directly to the chassis.

Safety is paramount really.

 

[maynard]

So if you look back up at that second picture that rich posted, where the outer lug is up inside the inner sill - is there a threaded mounting hole behind there?

or did you mean where the seat belt black bar attaches to the sill - therefore it wouldnt line up surely?