components vs 6x9s...new ICE ideas

[degrees of passion]

Ok so im starting afresh and thinking about a new ICE install in the new clio.I dont want to go the full hog like my last car,so no sub cos i want the boot space,BUT i'd still like a beefy sounding system with a decent 4 channel amp to run the front and back speakers.Im going for the Alpine CDA-9887R HU.

So for the front im after replacing the standards with components,but im torn between the Pioneer TS-Q131C which will slot straight in,and a set of more powerful components like the alpine SPX-13PRO or SPR-13S.Will it be much of a chew on to fit the alpines?(im wanting to just replace them and keep them behind the original grill covers-will they fit?) I fancy the pioneers but cos im using an amp to power them im tempted to go for the more powerful components.And where will the crossovers go?

Secondly,im torn between 6x9s in the back and coaxial speakers to replace the standard ones.If i was to buy 13cm coaxials they wud have to be reli beefy ones cos i still want a beefy sub sorta sound from the back(but still with the boot space),so im not sure theyd fit cos theyd probably have to have a big magnet on them?Which is why im leaning towards a beefy set of 6x9s,fitted to a stealth shelf,maybe with the amp fitted to the back of the backseat.

Also,i was wondering if anyone has bought these:
2000w 6x9s
They sound perfect for what im after,but im not so sure,seems abit suspect to me and could just turn out to be abit naff and maybe its better to go with tried and tested 6x9s??

Also,one final question,anyone have any ideas for a decent 4 channel amp to run this system,personally id rather go for alpine if the rest of the system turns out to be alpine.

comments appreciated fellas

 

[2thumbs]

They're not 2000w, they're 350w.

And don't bother. You dont need rear speakers anyway. Save the money and get some decent comps for the front and an amp to run them.

 

[thejoose]

Im with 2thumbs on this - In a car the size of a clio you dont need rear speakers, just a decent pair of amplified components up front

 

[Dink]

also i wouldn't buy a thing from that site

 

[cat171]

6x9's - Just say no !

 

[hazzel_frazzel]

If he does not run a sub, I'd say that 6x9's with a low pass filter on them are the best option. If you try running full range through even a very good set of components in a clio (mine cost £300) then the door cards just rattle to hell at high volumes. Putting 6x9's in for lower frequencies is a wise move if you really do not want to get a sub.

 

[degrees of passion]

Ye that site reeks of 'cheap n nasty' equipment that aint even cheap n alot of bullshit to make it all sound amazing.The reason im leaning towards the 6x9s is cos i still want a beefy sound.Whats the taboo with 6x9s lol??

 

[conneh]

6x9s are amazing.. if you'r a chav, who likes having your car broken into.

 

[thejoose]

If he does not run a sub, I'd say that 6x9's with a low pass filter on them are the best option. If you try running full range through even a very good set of components in a clio (mine cost £300) then the door cards just rattle to hell at high volumes. Putting 6x9's in for lower frequencies is a wise move if you really do not want to get a sub.

If we where meant to listen to stuff coming from behind us we would have our ears facing the other way.

Get a decent pair of components and sound deaden your doors it will sound much better than a pair of 6x9s on the rear shelf

6x9s are not always a bad thing - they do have a place every now and then but mounting them on a shelf behind your head isnt one of them

 

[hazzel_frazzel]

If he does not run a sub, I'd say that 6x9's with a low pass filter on them are the best option. If you try running full range through even a very good set of components in a clio (mine cost £300) then the door cards just rattle to hell at high volumes. Putting 6x9's in for lower frequencies is a wise move if you really do not want to get a sub.

If we where meant to listen to stuff coming from behind us we would have our ears facing the other way.

Get a decent pair of components and sound deaden your doors it will sound much better than a pair of 6x9s on the rear shelf

6x9s are not always a bad thing - they do have a place every now and then but mounting them on a shelf behind your head isnt one of them

Bass is non-directional sound. That's why most people have subs behind them too. If you don't wanna look like a chav and get them nicked, then get a stealth shelf. Obviously a sub would be a better option, and I personally would not run 6x9's in my car, but you can't just **** off 6x9's in every situation, just because other people do

 

[thejoose]

If we where meant to listen to stuff coming from behind us we would have our ears facing the other way.

Get a decent pair of components and sound deaden your doors it will sound much better than a pair of 6x9s on the rear shelf

6x9s are not always a bad thing - they do have a place every now and then but mounting them on a shelf behind your head isnt one of them

Bass is non-directional sound. That's why most people have subs behind them too. If you don't wanna look like a chav and get them nicked, then get a stealth shelf. Obviously a sub would be a better option, and I personally would not run 6x9's in my car, but you can't just **** off 6x9's in every situation, just because other people do

But 6x9s only give a little bit of bass, the rest is the higher frequencies so 6x9s in a shelf behind you is going to draw the sound stage back behind your head which will sound poo

 

[N!CK R]

Definately not 6x9's mate!
If you wanna keep your boot space but still want a really nice tone i would suggest some mid-range coaxials for the back connected to the headunit.
then for the front modify the mounting to fit 17cm comps, then you will get a lot deeper sound. Connected to an Amp.

 

[degrees of passion]

Id obviously get a stealth shelf if i went for the 6x9s-wud never mount them on the shitty standard parcel shelf or have them sticking out waiting for someone to nick em.

wtf you on about ears facing the other way lol our ears point sortof forward cos our eyes do and we mostly have to hear wot we are looking at,but that doesnt mean thers no need for us to hear stuff from behing us,our ears are designed to hear all around them and to know where that sound is coming from,for example to detect danger like someone creeping up on you from behind.dunno bout u n ur mickey mouse ears lol but mine point mostly out to the sides anyway.

Im not so sure i share this whole 'sound shudnt come from behind you' concept.I mean surely you must agree that a surround sound is better than a stereo sound from only in front of you,left and right?And with the time correction that alot of HUs have you can programme it anyway so it all hits you the driver at the same time.Personally if i cud only reli hear most of the sound coming from infront of me id feel as if i was missing something.Like if you went to the cinema and they only used the front speakers,it'd sound s**t.

I do wanna keep my boot space thats why im still considering 6x9s cos they dont take any boot space up reli.I wudnt use the tiny amp in the HU to run any of the speakers,i guess wot my sticking point is reli is can i still get a good beefy sound from a set of 13cm speakers?Thats why im thinking 6x9s wud be better cos ther a better allrounder,with the highs and mids but still gud lower down.

Im undecided on sound deadening,had it on my last car in the boot and on the doors,but im not so sure its worth the fortune you pay for it,plus the extra weight it adds.

Thanks for the feedback lads keep it coming.

 

[hazzel_frazzel]

Bass is non-directional sound. That's why most people have subs behind them too. If you don't wanna look like a chav and get them nicked, then get a stealth shelf. Obviously a sub would be a better option, and I personally would not run 6x9's in my car, but you can't just **** off 6x9's in every situation, just because other people do

But 6x9s only give a little bit of bass, the rest is the higher frequencies so 6x9s in a shelf behind you is going to draw the sound stage back behind your head which will sound poo

That's why I said put a low pass filter on them. I think we're both arguing largely the same point, but we have misunderstood each other. I just don't like how so many people go around saying you should never buy 6x9's, they have a time and a place too.

Mid and high frquencies should definitely come from the front, no one pays money to go to a gig and then stands with their back to the band, and the same applies in car audio. If you can, try listening to different cars with 6x9's, and cars with components and a sub. i can guarantee the one with the mids and highs coming from the front sounds so much better.


To whoever suggested coaxials in the back for lower and mid fequencies, I think 6x9's would be the better option, as their larger surface area will allow lower frequencies to be produced better, and therefore helping to create a much 'fuller' sound. I have a very good set of coaxials sat in my room at the moment, taken out of the clio because the panels where they are mounted have a masty habit of rattling loads and making it sound rubbish.

 

[2thumbs]

If you try running full range through even a very good set of components in a clio (mine cost £300) then the door cards just rattle to hell at high volumes.

That's why you have baffles and sound deadening aswell.

All speakers will sound crap, with no mid-bass punch unless your installation is half decent.

For the price of those 6x9's you can get a JBL GT4 with matching JBL amp etc and probably still have a bit of change.

I agree they have their uses, but not placed in a parcel shelf for everyone and their nan to see. For one they need enclosures to get them to work right and you need an amp on top of that.

If you want lows, get a sub. If you want to make your 'choons' sound better, get a set of comps and amp them in well prepped doors.

 

[ChrisR]

But 6x9s only give a little bit of bass, the rest is the higher frequencies so 6x9s in a shelf behind you is going to draw the sound stage back behind your head which will sound poo

I've got a set on a stealth shelf as I can't give up the boot space and they definitely provide more than a little bit of bass. Yes a set of comps up front amped would help things but the 6x9s were quick and easy, no extra wiring and no amps to mess around with, does the job for me.

And as said, using them for bass purposes it doesn't matter where they are

Although I'd love to try one of those underseat sub things and get rid of them as I want my normal parcel sheld back!

Anyway it's all subjective, got my stuff how I want it to sound and am happy with it, the next person might hate it

 

[bmh.01]

6x9's - Just say no !

+10000000

 

[hazzel_frazzel]

If you try running full range through even a very good set of components in a clio (mine cost £300) then the door cards just rattle to hell at high volumes.

That's why you have baffles and sound deadening aswell.

All speakers will sound crap, with no mid-bass punch unless your installation is half decent.

For the price of those 6x9's you can get a JBL GT4 with matching JBL amp etc and probably still have a bit of change.

I agree they have their uses, but not placed in a parcel shelf for everyone and their nan to see. For one they need enclosures to get them to work right and you need an amp on top of that.

If you want lows, get a sub. If you want to make your 'choons' sound better, get a set of comps and amp them in well prepped doors.

I do have fully sound deadened doors and baffles thank you. The fact of the matter is that on clio's, general build quality is not up there with many other cars. Bits of trim do not fit quite as they should, many rattles can come from under the dashboard. Prep your doors all you like, my car still has rattles when i turn my speakers all the way up. My components are capable of 125W RMS, powered by a huge, beefy amp, but i can't use their full potential, as bits start to rattle if I go too loud.

I had to drive my car around for a little bit without a sub when I upgraded the subwoofer, and I just decided after about a minute to not even attempt to listen to the music without the lows there, I just did not enjoy it.

He has already stated that he does not want to get a sub. Yes well prepped components will sound so much better than the standard renault rubbish, but if he is looking for a fuller, better quality sound, without a subwoofer, then I think that 6x9's could well be the way to go.

 

[How15]

i can fully recommend alpine stuff 2 u m8, i've a full alpine setup, most of my mates are running "branded" systems (albeit cheap-ish ones), fusion, sony, mutant, jbl, and i knowed they'd all swap given half a chance!! i've an MRP-F240 4 channel and an MRP-M350 mono block, all running type r speakers, can tell u my SPR-17LS components fit fine in the door, followed some1's guide on here for hiding them behind the grill with an MDF ring, still plenty of clearence behind for the window lol!
I'm runnin rear co-axials at the mo, all sound deadend, but i've had 6x9's, type-r's again, they sounded good when the orginal bridged amp i ran the sub with blew, gave me a decent level of bass, but prefer the coaxials and sub combo for a bit of rear sound and bass. can have a bigger sub box 2!!
that's just my opinion, i'm a geograpy student not an engineer, but i've had this set-up for over 2 years, with a few changes here and there, and by watching ebay i've never paid more than £60 for an amp or speakers, all new clearance stuff! hope this helps u in someway!

 

[wallop]

i'd go with a good set of front components
a 4ch amplifier
along with either a 6" or 8" sub mounted in a modified stealth shelf,(this could be ran either 'infinite baffle' or, if you box the sub in, sealed)....

you could even create a shallow enclosure below the shelf and mount a 10" sub inverted on the top of your stealth shelf....depends how fussed you are about security....

 

[Sean.]

Defo no to 6x9's anywhere!!!

why dont you go for a small 8" sub mounted somewhere in the boot, very small enclosure. Or have it mounted into the passneger footwell. very easily done and very tidy too!

 

[degrees of passion]

Well tbh cos id have to mount it somewhere lol-cant be arsed making an enclosure for it with the carpet etc and pissin bout trying to properly mount it,when i can just get a stealth shelf and put 6x9s in it:surely thers no point in an 8 inch sub lol the cones gonna about the same size of a 6x9?Im not keen on the idea of my doors rattling etc and i think that on small cars it doesnt matter how gud your install is thers a definate limit to how powerful you can have the door speakers.

Ye i deffo agree that alpines the way to go,undoubtedly the best HUs around,and ive had type s and type r systems with the old amps and the newer v series and its blew all of my mates' cheap brand systems away.
Im interested in the idea of fitting 17cm speakers in the front,will they go in easily?i dont wanna be cutting an choppin my door up just to get them in,and theyd have to be behind the original grill i dont want em showin.

Heres another thing ive always wondered,if i had say the 6x9s and front door speakers amped,wud it sound any better if i still put coaxials or components in the back and just run them off the HU?or will ther just be no need for them at all(on my last system i simply just disconnected the standard back speakers cos they bounced when i turned it up).

 

[How15]

17cm will go in, mine are mounted on an mdf ring wich is drilled into the door where the original was, the door's then sound proofed. the door card fits over if you cut out the plastic which mounted the original speaker aside from the bits the grill fits on, grill goes over, no one can tell looking at it!
my crossovers are inside the car beneath the dash, with tweeters in factory location for total stealth.

and just amp the four speakers, it's easier to sort out your levels on the heasd unit and get your front and rear sounding right. you really don't need six speakers.

 

[wallop]

the main advantage a 6" or 8" sub has over 6x9s is simply it's a sub & not a mid bass driver like the 6x9s.....