Confirm my DCi high pressure fuel pump fears

[GrahamS]

Some of you may know I bought a van which had petrol run through it.

Ran it for 1 minute on the day I sorted it. Was a little tough to start but I figured that would be the air in the lines. Yesterday I went to start it and it was really difficult. Took 5 attempts before it went into life.

Took some clip screen shots at various points and took 1 or 2 of my clio.

Kangoo seems to get to about 160 bar when it's not starting.

Clio hits about 300 or so and springs into life.

Just looking for confirmation that this fuel pump is also FUBAR.

Trying to start Kangoo

Kangoo running

Another of it running

Clio Running

 

[RenMatt]

So for starters did you fit new injectors or a second hand set ? if even one of your injectors is leaking back to much fuel you will lose pump pressure as it cant make enough to keep up on cranking , & would explain your ruff running .

 

[GrahamS]

RenMatt

Second hand set from Ren breakers. Believe they check theirs before sending but non the less I'll do a leak off test then.

 

[AlexW]

If its not making what its asking for (setting) then it has an issue. A good pump will hit 350/400 on cranking.

I assume it cranks just as fast as your clio, as I've had that where a starter motor was weak, so it wasn't spinning the pump fast enough to make the pressure required, it would fire up on brake cleaner everytime.

Leak off test, then pull the pump apart (you have nothing to loose!) and you'll learn a lot about it.

 

[GrahamS]

Cranks at the same rate as the Clio, it's even got a juicier new battery.

Best way to perform leak off? pipes off the returns and hang some bottle off them, never done one.

I'll need to send the pump back if it's busted so can't take it apart. Sold the old one now! that was worse though

 

[GrahamS]

Right chaps. Tried to do a leak off and it stalled after a minute. Starts much easier with brake cleaner.

from just the turning over it looks like each injector is giving back about the same as the other although I'm sure you can appreciate its difficult to tell

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Leak of test needs the return part ( where the leak of pipes go to ) blocking of on the pump pipe or it'll drag air through
keep the revs up to 1k. Will still give a good reading of which is fucked

 

[Sean6545]

2nd hand injectors are your first problem. Only got to sneeze around them and their ruined.

 

[GrahamS]

Will give the leak off another go tomorrow with a little blocking off.

Don't see the problem with second hand injectors. I know they're a fine piece of engineering but with the pressure they have through them they can't be that fragile

 

[RenMatt]

Would never waste time or money with second hand injectors , if you want a laugh look in to how Renault describe the conditions that new ones are fitted :bump: its imposable to achieve such conditions lol .As for testing them before they send them out pmsl you can take a set out of a running car put them in another and they shut down .

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

I've had a new set in my dci once , took them out and got the covering cap kit from Renault to prevent dirt .
One of them died lol

shittest injectors I have know!
Saying that jaguar 2.0 xtype D's are worse

 

[Dan@SJM]

Yeh they're proper fragile. My DCI, started it up and it had a leaky injector seal. Removed the injectors and they were then knackered as it wouldn't start ever again. New set of injectors and it started first time.

 

[Sean6545]

A Delphi specialist told me that lying them down horizontally does them no good. I always grip them upright in a vice now. I dont know how true it is but havnt had a problem since.

 

[GrahamS]

Did the leak off test today like this

Ran it for 4 minutes with it just above 1k

From right to left

injector 1....... 106

injector 2....... 108

injector 3....... 117

injector 4....... 97

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

They're f**ked LOL! You should have hardly f**k all

hold on 4mins? I'll have to check but I'm sure delphi official test times is only 1mins

 

[GrahamS]

@HMS Derv Destroyer

Pretty sure I did it right. Blocked off the feed back to the pump so no air was taken in. Just ran the car with the pipe on the return nozzle.

Engine was cold. Does that make a difference?

Had a google and can't find the correct method or specs so that would be ever so handy. Starting to loose it with this van now!

I did a quick go on the clio as well for 4 minutes but the car had just been used so was baking hot.

got 50, 23, 25 and 30

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Little to no feed back is new or good condition injectors.
Yours in the Clio are fine , don't faff with something that works still

Leak offs done on cold engine will give better readings , warm engines will help the injectors.
Im sure it's idle or 1k rpm and for short time.

Have you tried leaving It upto temp on idle with everything connected back as should?
Still struggles to start ? From cold?

 

[GrahamS]

It struggles whether hot or cold.

I've replace the pump now with one from a reputable breakers. Pressure on this pump is higher but still is struggling to get to the levels needed to start.

When it does start it runs lumpier than my clio. Noticed there was quite a bit of air coming back in the return pipe from the diesel pump, Tried to take a video of this but just ended up taking a photo (idiot)

 

[GrahamS]

@RenMatt @AlexW Sean6545 @HMS Derv Destroyer @Dan@SJM @MicKPM

Sorry to tag you all in this! Won't be able to work on the van for 3 months come the weekend so am keen to get it sorted

Before I buy brand spanking new injectors I just want to confirm they are completely dead.

I've done a leak off test on the kangoo (struggles to start, starts with brake cleaner and runs lumpy when started) and the clio (runs fine). Done both on completely cold engines for 2 minutes and then measured.

Kangoo

Injector 1 - 41 ml
Injector 2 - 44 ml
Injector 3 - 39 ml
Injector 4 - 35 ml

Clio

Injector 1 - 15 ml
Injector 2 - 10 ml
Injector 3 - 10 ml
Injector 4 - 29 ml

If there are any home brew tests I can do let me know and I'll get them done pronto.

 

[Dan@SJM]

My money is on injectors.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

As long as your 100% sure the pump isn't full or starting to breakdown then injectors id agree on.

Did is you have the pump end off to check ? As Alex stated ?

 

[GrahamS]

I haven't been able to take the pump apart but this is the second pump and the car behaves in exactly the same way.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Hmm, play on the side of caution , last thing you want is new injectors fucked from a worn out pump

 

[GrahamS]

Yeah I know mate. If we chuck a new pump on as well it will stand us nearly £1100 and I'm not sure if I could sell it for that.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

recon pumps are 250 odd from RSC europe ( you have to ring them as the site doesnt get updated lol )
aslong as the pump can give good pressure ( within limits ) then get a set of injectors and get it gone before something else goes

 

[RenMatt]

As said before you secondhand injectors were a waste of money & are dumping to much pressure back .

 

[Snake182]

Just based on reading what you have found, I am 99.9% sure its your injectors.

I see this all to often on the Volvo Diesel injectors especially, they leak off way to much fuel causing difficult starting,
the more fuel the injectors leak off the harder the car is to start due to fuel/rail pressure.

And regarding the pump readings on clip, you cant rely on the pressure readings if the injectors are leaking too much fuel,
it will mislead you as the pressure drop is due to the injectors.

I bet after you get it to start it idles fairly lumpy especially for the first minute or so aswell doesn't it.

 

[GrahamS]

Just to tie this thread up. Changed the injectors for a refurb set and the van runs really nicely. Thanks for the help chaps.

it did idle lump before I change them, bang on Snake182

 

[Snake182]

Glad to hear its sorted mate