Crankshaft pulley – Can’t get it loose!

[GodSpeed]

The cam belt pulley located on the crankshaft seems to be properly stuck. My friend who is a Renault mechanic told me that they use a skewer and hit from above if it’s stuck good… It would be an understatement to say that I’m uncomfortable with that method.

So, does anyone have a good trick to get it loose? Does any special tool exist for the job? Understand that it’s quite common for it to stick.

It is the pulley on the picture I’m talking about (off cause the belt and everything is of by now)

 

[T.Trophy]

Looking at the pic, does it even remove from the crank?

I'm at work at the moment and don't have my work shop manual but give anyone of the specialists a ring as I'm sure they'll be more than happy to tell you before you break something.

 

[GodSpeed]

Looking at the pic, does it even remove from the crank?

I'm at work at the moment and don't have my work shop manual but give anyone of the specialists a ring as I'm sure they'll be more than happy to tell you before you break something.

Yes it does move from the crank.....

In fact you must get it loose since you are supposed to rotate the new cam belt by 6 revolutions with the TDC pin and cam lock tool in place. This can only be done with this rotating on the crank and pulleys rotating on the cams. This is done to even out the tension over the belt after tensioning.

The manual is says nothing about its removal it’s just suddenly gone in the pictures.

Picture with it of.
http://www.angel-works.co.uk/images/articles/f4rbuild/CWB1_(67)large.JPG

http://www.angel-works.co.uk/images/articles/f4rbuild/CWB1_(48)large.JPG

http://www.angel-works.co.uk/images/articles/f4rbuild/CWB1_(56)large.JPG

 

[T.Trophy]

OK then as I don't have my work shop manual I'll just apply common sense and throw a couple of ideas at you.

Looking at it in those pictures it would appear to have a wood ruff key way, if thats so then there is no way your going to rotate the engine with the locking tools in position.

Surely when you tension the belt (with the cam pulleys loose then they rotate so that the tension is equal around the belt (as only the crank is locked)?

Are you not supposed to rotate the engine by hand several times after the cam pulleys have been tightened, then re insert the locking tools to ensure that there is no valve/piston interface and also that the timing is correct?

 

[RSTuning]

Use the threaded bolt holes to make a puller or, tap it round with a pry bar or similar.

 

[GodSpeed]

Use the threaded bolt holes to make a puller or, tap it round with a pry bar or similar.

Actually im about to manafacture a pulling tool (from the old bolt) to use those threads to extract it. But Im not to sure those M4's will hold up for it?

 

[sideways danny]

OK then as I don't have my work shop manual I'll just apply common sense and throw a couple of ideas at you.

Looking at it in those pictures it would appear to have a wood ruff key way, if thats so then there is no way your going to rotate the engine with the locking tools in position.

Surely when you tension the belt (with the cam pulleys loose then they rotate so that the tension is equal around the belt (as only the crank is locked)?

Are you not supposed to rotate the engine by hand several times after the cam pulleys have been tightened, then re insert the locking tools to ensure that there is no valve/piston interface and also that the timing is correct?

shhhhh

it needs to be freely spinning on the crank nose. sometimes a little wd40 or similar can help, then tap it round until it loosens up, remove, and clean the rust off with scotchbrite of similar. Spray with brake cleaner to remove lubrication before re-fitting

 

[T.Trophy]

Well there we go, simply remove followed by simply refit easy

 

[f0xy]

sometimes a little wd40 or similar can help

Exactly what I did with a stuck one last night. WD40, wiggle'd it and tapped it round, slid straight off

 

[GodSpeed]

Exactly what I did with a stuck one last night. WD40, wiggle'd it and tapped it round, slid straight off

That is exactly what I just did, sprayed it with a lot of WD40 before I left the garage yesterday. Today I tapped on it from above with a big screwdriver and it started moving right away.

However I got a bit carried away yesterday and "felt on it" with a polygrip without using protection between the polygrip and the pulley... I don’t know what I was thinking really?!? Seems like the metal is very soft as it left some scars

So looking at the picture below (have tried sanding the scars down a bit) would it be a good idea to change the pulley to be on the safe side?

WD40 and light tapping with a screwdriver WITH some kind of protection can be conluded to be a good solution.

 

[Tom]

Change it. Not worth the risk surely. (I'm probably wrong)

 

[mini-valver]

Nothing to worry about as long as there is no sharp bits.

 

[sideways danny]

Nothing to worry about as long as there is no sharp bits.

agreed, if there's nothing to actually damage the belt by cutting it then it's fine

 

[GodSpeed]

Part is called 8200251569 and from what I understand its listed at ~£33. Since it's such a minor cost I think Ill change it to be on the safe side.

 

[Laine_16v]

Pry'd mine off and cracked a chunk of the outer lip off. Fail

 

[GodSpeed]

Hello again!

Just got the new item ordered from Renault Nordic, 8200251569. Not cheap at £60...

However what puzzles me is the change in design that can be seen on the photo. With the new design the pulley can no longer freewheel on the crank. Instead the pulley will lock in the slit in the crank. A friend of mine (Renault mechanic) says this is the design of the Megane Turbo etc.

Thinking about it I can’t see any real problem with this since the cam pulleys are tightened after the crank so tension will be allowed to even out anyway?

Can someone please confirm?

 

[Fred@BTM]

that's the incorrect pulley then!

EDIT - just called renault, its the correct part according to the part number, but its the incorrect pulley, it shouldn't have a woodruff key

 

[GodSpeed]

that's the incorrect pulley then!

Maybe the item have been changed?

Can some one with access to the UK latest version of the latest Renault spare part system please double check this item for me?

EDIT: Fred saw your message now... strange.

 

[Fred@BTM]

see my post above, just spoke to the man that looked after all the renault sport race engines for the cup racers, it should NOT have a key on it, but the part without the key doesn't seem to exist! looks like they'll have to be machined!

 

[stan*]

What'll have to be machined?

 

[stan*]

And yes, make a slide hammer puller to go on the m6, not m4, holes...dont pry it from behind as you'll crack the lip.

 

[GodSpeed]

see my post above, just spoke to the man that looked after all the renault sport race engines for the cup racers, it should NOT have a key on it, but the part without the key doesn't seem to exist! looks like they'll have to be machined!

Is there no possibility that the item may have been changed recently and may be used with the key?

I mean its a fairly new car so I find it hard to belive that correct parts would be unavaliable. Btw this exact part is also used on 197/200 how is the tention procedure solved there?

It would be very interesting, to hear what Renault UK or Renault FR would comment on the usage of this part. Talking to Renault Sweden is to no use, a maximum of 10 Clio 182 were ever sold so the knowledge is almost zero.

And yes, make a slide hammer puller to go on the m6, not m4, holes...dont pry it from behind as you'll crack the lip.

Have manafactured a tool for it, will post images as soon as I have it in my hand. Bolts by the way are 100% certain M4 both on the new and the old part.

 

[Fred@BTM]

i've never seen a 172 182 F4R with a keyed pulley, how would you equalise the belt tension? i'd cut that key off the new pulley

 

[GodSpeed]

i've never seen a 172 182 F4R with a keyed pulley, how would you equalise the belt tension? i'd cut that key off the new pulley

Well you do tension the crank before the pulleys so would it not even itself out so to speak since the pulleys are allowed to move?

How is it done on the 197/200? it uses the pulley with a key! There must be some kind of procedure to do it. At least that’s what logic tells me.

 

[Fred@BTM]

197 engine isn't keyed mate!

 

[GodSpeed]

197 engine isn't keyed mate!

Just checked in the Renault system and it refers to the same item number that I got, with key that is mate. Unless I got the wrong item in the box?!?!

 

[stan*]

Out of 3 fixed pulleys, only two would have to be free to "equalise tension".

F7R is key'd on cams and crank....no issues there.

 

[iimushroomzii]

Just use your old one mate!?

 

[GodSpeed]

Well can confirm that it is the right item in the box. The item number is stamped at the back of it... and it corresponds to the one on the box. So Ill just have to use the same procedure as on the turbo versions, not really a problem since the camshaft pulleys are already slackened.

We checked Clio 197, Clio 182 and Laguna 1,8 16v which all share the same pulley. My friend the Renault mechanic had never seen any of these with a stock pulley with key. But the system refers to the same keyed pulley for all of them. So I draw the conclusion that Renault must have made a change in procedure. There should be a matching service bulletin confirming this.

 

[Lagerlout]

So are the pulleys just interference fit normally? :s No taper lock or anything?

 

[Fred@BTM]

^yup courtesy of the bolts clamping them up

 

[GodSpeed]

A few pictures of the tool I manufactured out of the old crank bolt. I just drilled two holes with the same spacing as the holes in the pulley, welded a spacer on the threads to prevent the big washer to slide down over the threads. Then all you need is 2x M4x20 to complete the tool.

 

[SBV116]

197 engine isn't keyed mate!

It is?!?!:S

 

[sideways danny]

Think Renault are going back to keyed crank pulleys. The newer K9K is keyed too

 

[Fred@BTM]

It is?!?!:S

not according to BPM they ain't? pass!

 

[mini-valver]

I've never loosened the cank pulley when doing a belt anyway so you should have no problems using a crank pulley with a key way. Lock cams, lock crank and let the cam pulleys rotate.

 

[stan*]

^exactly. It's not going to make a blind bit of difference.

 

[GodSpeed]

I've never loosened the cank pulley when doing a belt anyway so you should have no problems using a crank pulley with a key way. Lock cams, lock crank and let the cam pulleys rotate.

Thats what Im gonna do, just need K-tec to get me those da*n belt kits! Which seems to be difficult... :dapprove:

 

[Fred@BTM]

I've never loosened the cank pulley when doing a belt anyway so you should have no problems using a crank pulley with a key way. Lock cams, lock crank and let the cam pulleys rotate.

how do you plan on getting the belt off on an F4R without removing the crank pulley??

 

[mini-valver]

Buzz the auxbelt crank pulley off, but never even touch the cambelt crank pulley!