Dci tuning thread

[Tutuur]

I know the dci isn't the most popular but as it's a pretty economic daily which could use some more power i thought i'll start this thread to gather info on tuning these little dervs.

so far the main problem seems to be the fuel pump that isn't able to flow more fuel then something along the lines of 130bhp. However the ford 1.8tdci does flow more but the pump looks exactly the same. Could be because the tdci pump is fed by an inline 12v pump which the dci isn't.

HMS derv destroyer told me the 2.9 crdi injectors fit and also 1.8 tdci injectors look exactly the same.

Any more info on this would be more then welcome, all bundled in one topic!

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

As I said in the other thread I'm looking into it all, so far it's only crdi or ford parts that will fit without modifications

Would be good if someone knew the specs for flow rates on the TDCI system

 

[Scrooge]

I have a 1.8tdci I'm taking a part currently, I'll go over it with a fine tooth comb to spot the differences.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

If its a mk1 TDCI 1.8 the pump has four outlets like a VE not common rail one outlet.

Injectors still can be used I think

 

[Tutuur]

Can't find any flow rates on the net regarding delphi stuff, however the power the tdci's make should indicate they're enough.

could be the tdci bottom pulley has more teeth so the hpfp spins faster thus flowing more? or because of the lift pump...

 

[Tutuur]

The pump looks exactly the same to me except for the mounting points and pulley mounting...

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

It'll be down to the pumps internal design and the inline lift pump.

Im betting on a better sized cam plate inside and better. Bigger pistons

Pulley isn't a problem. Aslong as its a common rail and not VE

We could some how machine or adapt the cam wheel already on the DCI pump to fit.

Why I'm saying it has to be common rail is they can't be 180* out where as the other style pumps can be

As for mounting, a bracket can be made or machined to suite. Altho the stress (tension ) put on it needs to be controlled or the pump could just brake off and destroy the cambelt, thus screwing up the engine

 

[Tutuur]

I see a hybrid pump coming!

 

[Scrooge]

If its a mk1 TDCI 1.8 the pump has four outlets like a VE not common rail one outlet.

Injectors still can be used I think

It's a 53 plate mk1 unfortunately, I'll work my way through it though.

 

[Tutuur]

I would think it won't be a problem on a commonrail system though? With pump injection the compression strokes pop the injectors at the right moment. Commonrail supplies a continues pressure i would think?

the bosch pump fitted to the eco4 models has 30teeth instead of delphi's 40teeth thus makes 33,3% more revs...

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

If we come up with something I will hold back on a pd conversion and actually see what the 1.5 is made of

Ant, I could be wrong , Iv only seen a Y reg 1.8 TDCI. So they could of change stuff nearer to 53

 

[Tutuur]

It's a 53 plate mk1 unfortunately, I'll work my way through it though.

That's good!

Search "mk1 focus tdci pump" on google and you'll see the one i mean.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

I know pump RpM differences makes a big difference. Theirs a topic on the 206 forum about thier 1.4 hdi's using BMW 2.0 R70 pumps with better flow rates and a slight difference in rpm

Yes common rail supplies a constant pressure and the need for crucial pump timming isn't needed. They can't be 180* out.
Im led to believe

 

[Scrooge]

Nope they can't at all Raz.

 

[Tutuur]

I don't get it! If they aren't timed why couldn't they be 180* out?

 

[Scrooge]

They're timed though

You get it wrong they run like a bag of s**t.

 

[sburrell93]

What's the tdci pump you's are looking for info on? My dad's got a mondeo and program's for coding injectors etc. could see if it can read flow rates or anything like that if it would be any help?

 

[Tutuur]

Quote:

The high-pressure pump on a common-rail system does only one thing ... pressurize the fuel in the fuel rail. It has nothing to do with injection timing, it just pressurizes the rail and holds the pressure at a regulated setting.


Injection timing on a common-rail engine is done purely by controlling the timing of the pulses to the injectors, and therefore, the only way to "adjust" it is to change the mapping in the computer. It is otherwise non-adjustable. Same situation as ignition timing in newer gasoline engines with no distributors.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Different insides. One outlet means constants pressures.

4 outlets can be 180 out. Meaning you could be firing injector 4 when you really want injector 4. If you look at a common rail pump all apart and look at Old style electronic controlled mechanical pump, you'll see pistons as appose to a what a common rail has

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-TRAN...135-140PS-DELPHI-TYPE-MK6-04-06-/271120983582

That would work. 2.0-2.4 transit pump

 

[Scrooge]

Yep.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

What's the tdci pump you's are looking for info on? My dad's got a mondeo and program's for coding injectors etc. could see if it can read flow rates or anything like that if it would be any help?

Any really, 1.8 TDCI 2.0/2.2/2.4 all look compatable to a degree but flow rates make the issue arise, it's ok just changing pumps but they can be just the same flow rate a 1.5dci pump meaning you have achieved nothing lol

 

[Tutuur]

But as i said before, the 1.8 tdci doesn't have 4 outlets...

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

But as i said before, the 1.8 tdci doesn't have 4 outlets...

Theirs two types, the Y reg focus I worked on had 4 outlets

Unless ford called it something else. Unless that's what the old type TDDI is.

Yupp, I'm a tit, TDDI 1.8 focus engine has a four outlet pump.

Tdci 1.8 has one

 

[Scrooge]

I don't know I haven't opened one up yet, hopefully I can shed a bit of light on this over the next few weeks. It's a shame Delphi are fuckig useless at giving information out.

 

[Tutuur]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-TRAN...Parts_SM&fits=Model:Focus&hash=item3a7127ec9e

 

[sburrell93]

Any really, 1.8 TDCI 2.0/2.2/2.4 all look compatable to a degree but flow rates make the issue arise, it's ok just changing pumps but they can be just the same flow rate a 1.5dci pump meaning you have achieved nothing lol

I'll see what I can do this weekend thenc it's the 2.0. If I can get any sort of read on the injector flow rates I'll try and get a data set while driving to hopefully get a rough max flow rate that they're currently running at. Better than nothing I suppose

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

I don't know I haven't opened one up yet, hopefully I can shed a bit of light on this over the next few weeks. It's a shame Delphi are f**kig useless at giving information out.

They wouldn't even release info about the 1.5 design to me at a show I went to this year. No wonde pr they build crap pumps lol

 

[Tutuur]

You're right mate but maybe if we bundle forces we could get somewhere

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

I'll see what I can do this weekend thenc it's the 2.0. If I can get any sort of read on the injector flow rates I'll try and get a data set while driving to hopefully get a rough max flow rate that they're currently running at. Better than nothing I suppose

That'll help allot

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-TRAN...Parts_SM&fits=Model:Focus&hash=item3a7127ec9e

Im sure on the 1.5 scenic has a bracket that bolts to those top to holes

I'll go check

 

[Tutuur]

Some interesting info in here :

http://mdiesel.ho.ua/templates/MDiesel/zap/cat/DELPHI Common Rail.pdf

although the 2.0 pump looks the same the pn is different so could be flow rates are different.
however since all the pumps look exactly the same on the outside i guess internals could be built into the 1.5 casing? If a simple smaller pulley wouldn't help...

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Probably would need the housing of the 1.5 pump machining if theres any BIG difference between all the pumps.

I wouldn't rule that out tho. It would be helpfull as we can use all the original mounting points aswell as retaining the DCI pulley

 

[Tutuur]

I have a good used dci pump on the way for mine as i get the "fuel pressure low" warning sometimes at idle or when i take off.

i'll try to source a tdci one too so i can compare them. Maybe it's just different revs and a feed pump that makes the difference...

where did you have yours mapped and with what mods?

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-MOND...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c74d752b1 cheap enough for someone to buy and strip down for examining the internals

 

[Tutuur]

Although a smaller pulley would be far easier imo, only have to use spacers to remoce the slack on the belt because off the smaller pulley. 40>30t would make a difference of 33,3%, let's assume the original pump is good for 125bhpx1,333=166,6bhp would be more then enough for my goals

then it's only the injectors...

 

[Tutuur]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ford-focu...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item258458102c

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

I have a good used dci pump on the way for mine as i get the "fuel pressure low" warning sometimes at idle or when i take off.

i'll try to source a tdci one too so i can compare them. Maybe it's just different revs and a feed pump that makes the difference...

where did you have yours mapped and with what mods?

i had mine mapped at a diesel specialist when I had my old engine. The crank let go so I replaced the engine, recoded the ecu to standard

At the time it was straight through exhaust , DCI 80 IC DCI 100 turbo, and crdi injectors.

Unfortunatly I have placed the read out in a ' safe place ' so I'll have to find it. Shame It didn't give out any fuel reading

 

[Tutuur]

scrooge, could you check how many tooths the crank pulley of the tdci has? That way we could see if the tdci pump makes the same revs. The pump pulley is also 40t like the renault one.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Don't forget we may need a different rail sensor aswell or the ecu wouldn't be able to read over what thendci 1.5 has. 2000bar I think or was it 1800bar