Definitive answer on 197 cams?

[mikekean]

Ive searched countless threads now on 197 cams and cannot find a definitive answer as to whether you actually need to change the timing to get the gains with a standard inlet. The 197 uses exactly the same cam locking tool as the 1*2's so is it actually that benificial to change the timing on the standard inlet or just for an RS2?

Cheers,

Mike.

 

[bozothenutter]

I think in one of the threads Chip actually says the gains are negligible.

 

[Chip-mk1]

On the standard inlet the 197 cams wont make you huge gains whatever you do with the timing, but if you are going to fit them then you need to advance the inlet from what I have seen, although the static figure is the same on both cars the 197 can advance further on the dephasor so it can gain the extra advance the cams like that way I assume although Ive not see the advance map for the 197 to be sure.

 

[mikekean]

Cheers for the replies, looks like i wont be bothering then.

 

[Chip-mk1]

If you are doing the belt anyway and you have a set lieing around, its worth it, if you are going to buy them and do the belt specially, dont bother unless you have or plan to get an RS2 inlet IMHO

Set of 438 or Engine Dynamics cams makes more sense as an upgrade on the standard inlet.

 

[markkram]

Question for you then Chip. On my standard 182 that's used exclusively on the road what would you suggest.
Cams or the RS2?
Not looking for headline numbers but an improvement in driveability day to day.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Question for you then Chip. On my standard 182 that's used exclusively on the road what would you suggest.
Cams or the RS2?
Not looking for headline numbers but an improvement in driveability day to day.

Both work well, I personally like the linear response and high rpm pull of the rs2 so that is what we went for, but I do also like the big midrange shove of cams, its really all down to how you drive.

We worked out with ours its mainly either under 4k driving steady, or over 7K having its arse spanked off it, so for us the RS2 made sense on that basis, as the gains with cams are mainly in the 4-6K range. But thats cause my mrs drives very steady on the road but hard on track, if you drive fairly hard on the road all the time using the midrange torque, then cams are probably better for you, its genuinely a very personal choice.

 

[markkram]

Both work well, I personally like the linear response and high rpm pull of the rs2 so that is what we went for, but I do also like the big midrange shove of cams, its really all down to how you drive.

We worked out with ours its mainly either under 4k driving steady, or over 7K having its arse spanked off it, so for us the RS2 made sense on that basis, as the gains with cams are mainly in the 4-6K range. But thats cause my mrs drives very steady on the road but hard on track, if you drive fairly hard on the road all the time using the midrange torque, then cams are probably better for you, its genuinely a very personal choice.

Thank you.
If I'm honest I would like to go down the forced induction route but find it hard to justify spending that amount of ££££ on a car that's worth £3k.
Cams or the RS2 both fall well within what I would be happy to spend on the car so looks like I'm going to have to find someone with a set of cams installed so I can make a comparison.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I love forced induction clios, but I do totally agree the cost isnt at all justified.

My turbo one if I was starting from scratch with a 172/182 tomorrow I would expect to have to spend 6k+ on it to get to where mine is now, and if you were paying someone labour to do it for you it would be more like 8K+

 

[markkram]

Looks like I'm going to have to wait for you to get bored with yours and buy it off you for half what it's cost you to build.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Looks like I'm going to have to wait for you to get bored with yours and buy it off you for half what it's cost you to build.

Flol, sadly that is all its worth too Im sure mate, no one ever pays strong money for a very modified car.

For that reason though, there is no point me selling it, as what on earth could I get for 4-5K I'd get for it that would be as much fun? Cocaine and hookers is the only option I can think of, but I dont think the mrs would be pleased.

 

[kaz19880]

i thought your life revolved round hookers engines and coke chip gotta be something mental with the amount of projects you have

 

[Kieran..]

I'm tempted by sticking some 197 cams at the end of the year when it comes to Cambelt and dephaser time.

just think I would regret trying them, they couldn't be any worse than the standards?

 

[markkram]

I've lost count of the number of times I've looked at replacing the 182 over the last 6 months.
Much like you I can see nothing that I'd get as much enjoyment out of driving every day without spending a small fortune on before watching it depreciate to nothing.
Ive had 3+ years of trouble free motoring from the Clio (routine maintenance accepted) and had a smile on my face after every journey.

Back to searching what's available on the cam front pending news on the RS2 from MWM...........

 

[Chip-mk1]

I'm tempted by sticking some 197 cams at the end of the year when it comes to Cambelt and dephaser time.

just think I would regret trying them, they couldn't be any worse than the standards?

IME economy drops slightly with the 197 cams, a few mpg not a massive difference, but it does seem to drop (even after mapping properly)

 

[Chip-mk1]

i thought your life revolved round hookers engines and coke chip gotta be something mental with the amount of projects you have

No mate, Im not into cocaine at all.

 

[Kieran..]

Hmmm how about lower end torque? See any increase?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Hmmm how about lower end torque? See any increase?

No, its more at the top end of the rev range with the 197 cams that you see gains, and thats why the standard inlet is an issue, it just doesnt like 7k+

Dan's RS2 car for example that I mapped for him, makes peak power at the limiter at 7800rpm, if we could only rev it a bit further it would probably make even more! They just love rpm but sadly the F4R doesnt, lol

 

[Dan@SJM]

Lol I remember when I told you it made power at the limiter again (for the third time!) you said "I swear that things asking for an 8000+ rev limit. PMSL.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Lol I remember when I told you it made power at the limiter again (for the third time!) you said "I swear that things asking for an 8000+ rev limit. PMSL.

Lol, indeed mate, they just LOVE to rev with the RS2 and 197 cams, its just a shame the engines cant safely do so enough to really find out what it could make!