Diagnosing a bearing noise, or gearbox whine please help!

[guysy]

Following on from this thread: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...il-very-faint-whine&highlight=bearing+gearbox

I'm creating a new one because I want to diagnose what I now think is a bearing noise.

This came about a few weeks after changing the gearbox oil and also installing a ktec induction kit. I initially thought it was the gearbox and still could be, but I need help from those with experience so I can solve it.

My thoughts: the ktec induction leaves a big gap, there is definitely much more air noise which someone has also said they experienced in my old thread below, Im also missing a passenger splash guard letting a lot of air in which I will replace asap. That aside this sounds like a bearing noise more so than just air creating a noise.

If someone could clear this up:the noise happens in and out of gear, mainly at around 40-45 mph the noise comes. Its a faint whine, If it was a gearbox related issue, would the noise still happen out of gear with the clutch down?
Because If the noise is there around 40 mph and I put it in neutral and coast it still makes the noise but drops with the speed. Also If I try the same in neutral and clutch down going down a hill the noise increases. This is what leads me to think a bearing noise? with it being out of gear should the noise not drop if it where gearbox related?

The rear discs I believe are genuine and where changed 2 years ago. Could it be these? It sounds more to the passenger side of the car. possibly front N/S.

Please help! I want it solved! I will try and find a video I had

 

[Budgie]

If it still happens with clutch down and it's related to the gearbox then it's the diff.

Stick a standard air box and wheel arch liner back in to diagnose properly.

If it's not loud enough to be definitive then it's not worth worrying about

 

[Budgie]

To check all bearings, jack up and rock the wheels on the bearing axis. Anymore than a couple of mm play and you've found your problem.

 

[guysy]

I guess the Diff is inside the gearbox then?

I will stick the airbox back in and change the oil back to correct grade instead of cheap carlube 75w90 and see if it makes a difference.

This is the noise, it sounds louder on the video, but in person its still noticeable.

Might need to turn the volume up high.

 

[MikeClio172SPT]

Right okay, your on the right track, first of all, ive had all sorts of noises on cars brought to me over the years, & they can be tricky to pinpoint as your finding, as for coasting in & out of gears, if this was a layshaft bearing gone in the gearbox, then dropping out of gear with the clutch dipped you should hear the noise stop, but...... if its the diff bearings going...... wont make any difference shifting in & out of neutral, as the diff bearings are always spinning, usually diff bearings give a humming or rumbling noise when there going.

To check your front wheel bearings.... what i do is.... take a wheel off, whip the caliper off, take the pads out, place the wheel back on, & spin the wheel by hand & listen to the bearing, reason why i take the pads out, as you wont be hearing the pad to disk noise, & the wheel is easier to spin.

 

[MikeClio172SPT]

I guess the Diff is inside the gearbox then?

I will stick the airbox back in and change the oil back to correct grade instead of cheap carlube 75w90 and see if it makes a difference.

Nowt wrong with the car lube stuff, the clio sport Gearbox runs 75/80, so the 75/90 will be fine Dont worry about changing the oil, wont make any difference to the noise if the diff bearings are going.

 

[guysy]

Ok I will try the Pads out and wheel spin test, but seeing as the noise happens at around 40 will I be likely to spot if its the bearing?

I guess the left to right rock on the wheel should be one front wheel off the ground one on yeah? Is it best to have someone hold the steering wheel tight whilst I do it? Ive done the test before but that was just for track rods, there both fairly new so I guess any more movement would be inner tie or bearing.

Not that Im an expert but from what you two have said so far I think its the diff or layshaft bearing, thats what I was leaning towards when doing a bit of reading up on gearbox noises before.

And ok about the oil, I was wondering if it would help but tbh it doesnt sound like an oil change will if it is a gearbox issue.

 

[MikeClio172SPT]

Ok I will try the Pads out and wheel spin test, but seeing as the noise happens at around 40 will I be likely to spot if its the bearing?

I guess the left to right rock on the wheel should be one front wheel off the ground one on yeah? Is it best to have someone hold the steering wheel tight whilst I do it? Ive done the test before but that was just for track rods, there both fairly new so I guess any more movement would be inner tie or bearing.

Not that Im an expert but from what you two have said so far I think its the diff or layshaft bearing, thats what I was leaning towards when doing a bit of reading up on gearbox noises before.

And ok about the oil, I was wondering if it would help but tbh it doesnt sound like an oil change will if it is a gearbox issue.

o
Probably is going to be diff bearings. But do your checks on the wheel bearings first. No you wont need anyone holding the steering wheel dude.

 

[guysy]

Ok I will do the tests and hope it just a bearing !

A few questions if you wouldnt mind answering for me:

What would be the cause of the diff bearings whining? Harsh driving? anything to do with poor gear changes?

I guess it cant be pin pointed but if the diff IS making this noise, what happens... i.e. can I drive it and live with the noise, Or is it something that could fail and blow up the gearbox?

Also I've read into a rebuild. I guess Id be looking at 400 for someone to remove and refit the box, and circa 350 for someone like agency transmissions to rebuild it ( I read that in a gearbox thread is the diff included in that? )

 

[Scotty-boi]

The diff on mine went. I got another box and had it rebuilt. More cost effective I believe.
Rebuild cost me £250 all in!

 

[Scotty-boi]

Then £450 to have old box off and rebuilt box fitted along with new clutch

 

[guysy]

Did you fit it yourself? Ive read into the guide and think I could do it but Im not sure I really want to! i.e. on my drive.

The cars only on 65k! if it is the diff Its very annoying

Edit: just seen your second post. If it was something that needed doing, Id probably buy a second hand box have that rebuilt then get someone to swap it over but Its still £££.

 

[MikeClio172SPT]

Ok I will do the tests and hope it just a bearing !

A few questions if you wouldnt mind answering for me:

What would be the cause of the diff bearings whining? Harsh driving? anything to do with poor gear changes?

I guess it cant be pin pointed but if the diff IS making this noise, what happens... i.e. can I drive it and live with the noise, Or is it something that could fail and blow up the gearbox?

Also I've read into a rebuild. I guess Id be looking at 400 for someone to remove and refit the box, and circa 350 for someone like agency transmissions to rebuild it ( I read that in a gearbox thread is the diff included in that? )

Gearbox issues, can be a few things, one of them you have mentioned, > harsh driving, first gear is a killer on weak gearboxes. oil leaks on a gearbox can contribute to bearing wear, once the box becomes low on oil. diff bearings will whine on for quite some time...... but the end result is the bearings will eventually collapse, also if left for a long time, it will mash the diff in the end. failure is the result

 

[guysy]

When I removed the oil about 2.9L came out I read that not all 3.1 or .2 would come out, but I'd guess Im the first person to change the gear oil so hopefully it wasnt low.

Its a strange one, I think the noise is made worse by the air noise, I will put the OEM airbox back in and see what happens. I will be very relieved if it is a bearing and or wind noise.

 

[MikeClio172SPT]

3.1 is the correct capacity. Did you use the drain plug on the bottom to drain it? i imagine u did.

 

[guysy]

Yep. 3L went in until dripping out the refil hole.

 

[MikeClio172SPT]

Yep. 3L went in until dripping out the refil hole.

thats fine dude.

 

[guysy]

Well I put the old air box back in which reduced some air noise, but the whine is still there, lately I've been constantly putting it into neutral at speed to listen where its coming from, so even though somethings starting to wear when driving normally and ignoring it its not that bad.

I haven't taken the pads out yet, but I tried to find any movement in the wheels and didn't really find anything.

I cant pin point weather its the front being the gearbox or the rear being the rear bearings. I think I'll have to just keep an eye on it until I can actually find out what it is.

 

[red_beastie]

Why don't u just change bearings for peace of mind

 

[guysy]

I think I will but if I'm looking at 700 ish for a box rebuild I could really do with saving that 100 on discs first as there only 2 years old, but yeah I think I'll have to to rule that out.

I think it is the box the way the noise chirps but tbh I can't tell.

 

[Olimee]

I have precisely the same symptoms..

I have jacked all 4 courners up and all wheel bearings feel good, bar the rear passenger side.

It is very stiff to turn, I think the caliper has seized and is not releasing completely, the disk also has some discoloration as if it's getting very hot.

I get the same noise from 40mph upwards.

I have just had a new gearbox put in, i certainly hope it's not that

 

[guysy]

Hmm I think I'll check the rears out again after you saying that, the noise also came a few months after me adjusting my handbrake cable, does anyone know if that would make the pads touch the disc more even when not under braking?

Why did you have your box changed mate? That's one thing I don't want to do, change mine and find it was a bearing or something all along.

I would like to hope it will turn out to be a bearing but the way the minute I take it out of gear and into neutral it whines makes me think its gearbox related.

 

[Olimee]

Hmm I think I'll check the rears out again after you saying that, the noise also came a few months after me adjusting my handbrake cable, does anyone know if that would make the pads touch the disc more even when not under braking?

Why did you have your box changed mate? That's one thing I don't want to do, change mine and find it was a bearing or something all along.

I would like to hope it will turn out to be a bearing but the way the minute I take it out of gear and into neutral it whines makes me think its gearbox related.

I had to change mine as a tooth shot through the bottom of the gearbox then all my box fluid came out, at the time I couldn't work out where it had come from and then I had every mechanic and people on here telling me it was my engine sump, after doing countless checks I continued to drive it watching my engine oil, then BANG a bunch of bearings went at the same time and it pretty much came to a halt.

I'm pretty certain the noise if coming from a seized disk, with the added cold weather (i assume) it's now pulling to the left when pulling away.

 

[guysy]

Ah I see, well as its been colder lately the whine is more apparent, unless its the passenger front wheel bearing I'm fairly certain it's the diff, it whines when the car isn't being pulled forward anymore, I.e In neutral or 4th / 5th when going down hills.

I think I'm going to source the cheapest box I can and have it rebuilt, then either find someone to swap it for a reasonable price or possibly swap the box myself, have been reading over a picture guide on here, I think dropping the subframe would be the method I would go for. Any tips?

 

[guysy]

Watched a lot of Youtube videos last night, out of interest and boredom, listening to lots of videos with suspected bearing noises or gearbox / diff noises. It seems most of the videos are of cars that are at the point where they are about to blow up! where as mine is faint but getting louder.

I saw a video with a honda S2000 who's noise did sound pretty similar to mine, also it was recorded in neutral and at 40mph. He updated the video to say it was the tyres making the noise, which did make me think possibly also my tracking is out 1 degree, but if you listen to the whine I have it does get louder when put into neutral. the noise adjusts to me braking, and quiets when put back into gear although carries on in 3rd to 5th, sort of chirping.

Im after some chat around this reallly, Ive read a lot of threads on here after searching. Agency Transmissions seems like a good place to get whichever box I find re-conditioned. Ill be looking out for a cheap second hand box to get reconned and also get a clutch then I may attempt to fit it myself when the weather warms up.

My question is I've read once before someone say the cost for a gearbox that's truely f**ked would be around 350ish... Is the differential included in a general gearbox rebuild?