Diffrence between 172 182 / 182 cup hubs

[Mosley182]

Hi all I have just bought a set of spax rsx's. I run a 182 cup with 60mm spacings. But the new shocks are 54mm. I would like some advice in weather to put 172 front hubs on instead so I can run the coilovers. Or have them machined to fit my 182 hubs also will my wheel barings & abs sensor & brakes fit also heard that the driveshafts are different

Please feel free to help me lol

Many thanks Adam

 

[Fred@BTM]

its not that simple, you'll have to sway driveshafts and possibly steering arms too

 

[Mosley182]

What do you mean. Could you tell me in more detail pls

 

[Mosley182]

What do you mean. Could you explain in more detail pls mate

its not that simple, you'll have to sway driveshafts and possibly steering arms too

 

[skydiver]

Just don't, do it!!You have to change driveshafts and 172 front bearing are smaller than 182cup!Brake and ABS sensor,are the same!You could change something on your coil,but i don't suggest it!

 

[Mosley182]

What about machining the gap. Chip said he's done loads & Michael Warford Motorsport have done the same.

Or do I just sell them on there brandnew

 

[MG cup]

I'd slot the coilovers if there is room, too many variatons with hubs,shafts,steering arms etc.

 

[Mosley182]

I'd slot the coilovers if there is room, too many variatons with hubs,shafts,steering arms etc.

Yea mate there is a round hole and a slotted 1 to ill just make them both slotted lol thanks

 

[Mosley182]

Re: coilovers
Originally Posted by Mosley182
Originally Posted by pbufton
hiya buddy


Just a quick note, if you swap the 60mm hubs off your 182 to standard/cup 172 ones, as they are 54mm these coilovers will fit.


I changed my hubs yesterday, every other part is interhangeable and the hubs only cost me 40 quid for both


The track width isnt quite as wide on the front after but im getting 20mm spacers for mine
hi mate I posted that I was going todo that but they recon wheel barings drive shafts are not the same. & not todo it is yours a 182 cup with 60mm hubs could you tell me about yours & what you did pls


many thanks Adam
Yeah I posted a thread as I was thinking to do the same thing months ago, did a search recently and Cup_Phil told me the shafts, lower arms and steering roads are the same length as on the cup, theres just less offset with the cup hub than the 182 ff one.


I literally unbolted the 60mm hubs and bolted the 54mm ones on. I had to screw the steering arm track rods in a fair way but other than that everything was compatible.


Currently Im waiting to order 2 new abs sensors, as mine were seized into the 60mm hubs. So if i was you, id get hold of some hubs off a standard 172, as they'll have the sensors in. (at 57quid+vat per side from renault, its a big saving)


Mines going fine so far, no reason for anything not to. The driveshafts are on sliders so they're fine

 

[MG cup]

Sorry, I'm struggling understand what you have said? If its less track width I 'll await to see your thread for knocking driveshafts.

 

[Chip-mk1]

As I said when you showed me the pics of your shocks, there isnt enough material for it to be safe to slot them, you can only do it the way around mine are where they are 60mm slotted down to 54mm.

 

[Mosley182]

I basically put the coilovers up for sale & said I would love to use them on my 182 cup with 60mm centres. Then had a email saying I have done the conversion on my car swaped hubs to 54mm and if I want the same width then to use hubsentric wheel spacers to make it wider tracked.

Many thanks for your replys

 

[pbufton]

I thought about slotting mine, but didnt like the amount of material that would be left either top or bottom after machining, and didnt want to weaken them at the mounting points.

I fitted 172 cup hubs, I'm awaiting any problems to arise. Im sure many have pondered about atcually doing it, I decided to try it.

Edit, found a post from a week or two ago which may be of use to those who say dont do it

Driveshafts are the same length, so are the wishbones, balljoints and track control arms

As far as I can tell 172 cup and 182 cup hubs are interchangeable
The only difference is the 172 cup hub has a smaller/cheaper wheel bearing in it and it's thinner so you lose 5-6mm of width. But you could use spacers to bring it back out

 

[MG cup]

The difference with what Phil wanted to do is he was looking to swap from 172 cup to 182 cup iirc, so they are widest track of the 1*2's to begin with against you ff182. Like i said in another thread, you should be okay with the swap that you have done.....but there are different steering arms, wishbones, subframes and shafts between the variants.

 

[pbufton]

So really, its only the 1*2 cup hubs which are interchangeable with no other alterations?

 

[Chip-mk1]

172 cup and non cup hubs are the same. Me and mike from Mwm measured them. Only the 182 cup is different as far as I am aware.
Cups and late 172/182 have more track width than ph1 and early ph2 it would appear, but I believe this is down to the subframe mounting holes not the arms or hubs.

 

[MG cup]

So really, its only the 1*2 cup hubs which are interchangeable with no other alterations?[/QUOTE

172 cup and non cup hubs are the same. Me and mike from Mwm measured them. Only the 182 cup is different as far as I am aware.
Cups and late 172/182 have more track width than ph1 and early ph2 it would appear, but I believe this is down to the subframe mounting holes not the arms or hubs.

That's my thoughts too now, 172 hubs are all the same and 182 hubs of any kind are the same but have the larger bearing which some have said it widens the track width slightly. All the different widths that Renault have quoted in specifications is done with subframe drilling and wheel offset.

Thats logical anyway, they wouldn't redesign a new hub for every variation where as re drilling the subframes and bottoms arms is feasible. 2 hubs IMO, 172 hubs and 182 hubs?????

 

[Cup_Phil]

I've answered this a few times now - did a LOT of research on it when I was looking at putting 182 hubs onto my 172 cup

You can fit 172 cup hubs - the track rods are the same length, the driveshafts are the same length and fitment, the wishbones are the same. There's nothing else needed - just swap the hubs

The only difference is 172 cup hubs are slightly narrower so you lose a bit of track width, and the bearing is smaller which allegedly means it's not as strong but I can find no evidence of that.

A set of 10 or 20mm spacers and you'd be laughing

I certainly wouldn't slot the coilovers considering a set of 172 hubs is about £40 and it's not even much work to fit them

 

[Cup_Phil]

Thats logical anyway, they wouldn't redesign a new hub for every variation where as re drilling the subframes and bottoms arms is feasible. 2 hubs IMO, 172 hubs and 182 hubs?????

The 182 CUP hub is completely bespoke to the rest of the 1*2 range - it has a bigger bearing and different bolt spacing - so making it slightly wider for a better track on the 182 cup would be simple enough. If you think about it making the hub poke the wheel out a bit further is logical as then the wishbone, driveshaft and track control arm lengths all stay the same throughout the range, whereas if they drilled the subframe differently or longer wishbone etc... then they would have to manufacture a completely different set of wishbone/track rod/driveshafts just to widen the track of the car slightly.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I've answered this a few times now - did a LOT of research on it when I was looking at putting 182 hubs onto my 172 cup

You can fit 172 cup hubs - the track rods are the same length, the driveshafts are the same length and fitment, the wishbones are the same. There's nothing else needed - just swap the hubs

The only difference is 172 cup hubs are slightly narrower so you lose a bit of track width, and the bearing is smaller which allegedly means it's not as strong but I can find no evidence of that.

A set of 10 or 20mm spacers and you'd be laughing

I certainly wouldn't slot the coilovers considering a set of 172 hubs is about £40 and it's not even much work to fit them

Nice one for clearing that up.


Adam, if you do want to swap the hubs, Ive got a pair of 172 hubs im happy to swap you for your 182 hubs, as my turbo clio is on 172 hubs but the shocks on will work with either, only problem is I would have to do it this weekend as I will be getting it geo'd soon after and obviously once I do that its going to be a pain as I'd have to pay for it to be geo'd again on the new hubs as well.

 

[MG cup]

So really, its only the 1*2 cup hubs which are interchangeable with no other alterations?

172 cup and non cup hubs are the same. Me and mike from Mwm measured them. Only the 182 cup is different as far as I am aware.
Cups and late 172/182 have more track width than ph1 and early ph2 it would appear, but I believe this is down to the subframe mounting holes not the arms or hubs.

The 182 CUP hub is completely bespoke to the rest of the 1*2 range - it has a bigger bearing and different bolt spacing - so making it slightly wider for a better track on the 182 cup would be simple enough. If you think about it making the hub poke the wheel out a bit further is logical as then the wishbone, driveshaft and track control arm lengths all stay the same throughout the range, whereas if they drilled the subframe differently or longer wishbone etc... then they would have to manufacture a completely different set of wishbone/track rod/driveshafts just to widen the track of the car slightly.

Exactly what I said above Phil but........ Re-read what I have said, it's a bit hazy in above post. IMO there are only 2 types of hub. Ones that were fitted to all 172's (small bearing) and ones that were fitted to all 182's (big bearing). The hubs have different hole spacings as well but that doesn't affect the geomatery, just the way the struts attach. I never said there was longer wishbones, but there is wishbones with holes drilled squint to give more caster (been proven) and there is longer inner track rods on 172 cup ( been proven) and maybe the 182 cup. I need them to fit my cup racer suspension domain know for sure there longer. There definitely is subframes that have been drilled for wider track (been proven) and 172 cup shafts are the longest shaft there is as I have done a lot of research for my car and they are the longest 23 spline shaft available for the jc5 g/box, even the scenic has shorter.

Pictures below will prove everything I have just said. Drill the holes further out on the subframe then you NEED longer shafts and you NEED longer track rods. The only thing I'm not 100% on is if the 182 cups have the re-drilled subframe or increased caster on the wishbones.

Mark123 checked his 182 cup wishbones but not the subframe.

And I've just been out to look at my 182 with cup packs and the wishbone looks the same as the 172 cup i.e. it has the extra caster from the different ball joint position.

Did someone check ph2 172 and 172 cup subframes? What i found is different wishbone mounting holes location:


Usual clio subframe - 21mm
Clio cup 172 subframe -11mm
Clio 172 - ??? (should be about 16??)


This should give wider track.

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb357/mark12314/clio_project/P1010152.jpg

172cup subframe

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb357/mark12314/clio_project/P1010148.jpg

172

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb357/mark12314/clio_project/P1010146.jpg

172 against 172 cup TRE's

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb357/mark12314/clio_project/P1010150.jpg


172 against 172 cup track rods

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb357/mark12314/clio_project/P1010150.jpg


CAN SOMEONE PLEASE IMBED ABOVE PHOTO'S...CHEERS.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I don't believe those hole pictures on the subframes move the wishbones out - it just looks like one subframe has more spare metal past the hole. Without measuring the distance from hole to hole across the subframe you can't be sure

If the holes really did move the wishbone in and out then there would be different length driveshafts - and there aren't
But yes there did appear to be wishbones with more or less caster built in - but that wouldn't stop you swapping hubs

 

[MG cup]

So really, its only the 1*2 cup hubs which are interchangeable with no other alterations?

172 cup and non cup hubs are the same. Me and mike from Mwm measured them. Only the 182 cup is different as far as I am aware.
Cups and late 172/182 have more track width than ph1 and early ph2 it would appear, but I believe this is down to the subframe mounting holes not the arms or hubs.

I don't believe those hole pictures on the subframes move the wishbones out - it just looks like one subframe has more spare metal past the hole. Without measuring the distance from hole to hole across the subframe you can't be sure

If the holes really did move the wishbone in and out then there would be different length driveshafts - and there aren't
But yes there did appear to be wishbones with more or less caster built in - but that wouldn't stop you swapping hubs

There are longer driveshafts for different cars, for a start there needs to be longer shafts as the two piece design shaft has to travel further than a one piece shaft that's simple and Fred has said many times you need the correct shafts as he has tried different variations and had problems. As to which shafts you can swap with what car I'm unsure as it gets a bit complicated with different subframes and hubs. I agree you can swap hubs around an all cars as long as its just hubs your changing to achieve the fitting of different hole spacing coils. Aslong as the correct offset wheels are used there should be no issue with rubbing etc.



A quick eBay and you will see there ARE different length shafts. Read the stats box on both of these.

RH shaft O/S 752mm

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Right-Fro...o|Cars+Type:2.0+16V+Sport&hash=item56501fed5c

RH shaft O/S 734mm

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DRIVESHAF...o|Cars+Type:2.0+16V+Sport&hash=item2ec3503e99

 

[Cup_Phil]

Hrmmm one is a compressed length and the other isn't but you might be right

The 182 with the 2piece shaft overall length is the same as the 1 piece though - they're swappable. A few people have put the 182 2 piece shaft on 172 turbos as it helps eliminate torque steer

 

[MG cup]

Yup I agree with that as Cupman fitted a 2 piece shaft to his 172 cup to allow room for an oil drain and has had no issues. Iirc the 2 piece shaft was only fitted to 182's so they are longer than 172 non cups and fit fine on 172 cups because the Cup has a bigger track width comparable to the 182's.

P.S shafts are always measured as a compressed length.

 

[MG cup]

I inserted the wrong picture in above post. This is 172 inner track rods against cup.

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb357/mark12314/clio_project/P1010151.jpg

Stupid iPad

this thread is good.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?659166-172-cup-track-rod-ends/page2

 

[Chip-mk1]

Hrmmm one is a compressed length and the other isn't but you might be right

The 182 with the 2piece shaft overall length is the same as the 1 piece though - they're swappable. A few people have put the 182 2 piece shaft on 172 turbos as it helps eliminate torque steer

Phase 1 one piece shafts are shorter than phase 2 two piece shafts definately, Mike from MWM runs quite a lot of camber on his phase 1 and when he swapped the 2 piece shaft on it bottomed out.

Cup 1 piece shafts are longer than phase 1 one piece shafts.

Ive compared a one piece 172 cup shaft to a 182 cup shaft and they appeared to be the same compressed length, but the phase 1 was noticeably shorter.

 

[Cup_Phil]

That might explain it - I didn't look at ph1 stuff at all
I just investigated all the ph2 options

 

[MG cup]

So from what you have said there are at least 3 lengths of shaft, be it one piece or 2 piece.

Was the 182 shaft you compared to the 172 cup shaft one or 2 piece Chip? Was there one piece shafts fitted to any 182's?

 

[Chip-mk1]

So from what you have said there are at least 3 lengths of shaft, be it one piece or 2 piece.

Was the 182 shaft you compared to the 172 cup shaft one or 2 piece Chip? Was there one piece shafts fitted to any 182's?

It was a 2 piece 182 cup shaft, I have no definitive answer to if there is a 1 piece shaft on the 182 at all but I dont think so as Ive not come across one yet, but my experience of clios is relatively limited compared to fords and vauxhalls etc TBH

 

[Mosley182]

Hi to all. I would like to say I have successfully fitted the Clio 172 hubs onto my Clio 182 cup and fitted spax rsx I bought new trackrod ends & bottom ball joints had it all tracked up today and its awsome I defo would recommend spax rsx.

thanks for every 1s help

mosley