Does the 1.2 TCE 100 just have crap economy?

[Noesph]

Hi, I read this site quite a bit, and for quite a few years. But I don't post that much on here. I have a Twingo GT, but there being a lot more clios on the road than twingos (and being a bigger site than twingo133.net) I thought i'd ask on here.

I've had a Twingo for over 2 years now. It's been checked at a good few garages, no one could ever find a problem, it gets a full service every year, runs on shell V power. Passes it MOT with flying colours. Yet its mpg has been crap since I've got it.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/renault/twingo/2009/noesph/335365

And ignore the highest and lowest mpg on that, the car sometimes seems to click off the pump when its not really full. I.e I can lose the 1st square in 3 miles, then the next time it lasts for 40 miles, giving a false reading.

So due to suspecting the car fills up to a different level every time, I started a fuelly account around Christmas, so I could find an average.

• 13/06/2015 30.491mpg
• 06/06/2015 30.76mpg
• 17/05/2015 39.22mpg
• 05/05/2015 36.37mpg
• 30/04/2015 31.01mpg
• 23/04/2015 22.95mpg
• 12/04/2015 36.80mpg
• 26/03/2015 28.818mpg
• 06/03/2015 33.100mpg
• 20/02/2015 32.18mpg
• 06/02/2015 28.561mpg
• 24/01/2015 29.37mpg
• 12/01/2015 29.86mpg

Average of 31 mpg over 2400 miles.

Now I work about 8.2 miles away from home, in the morning I can get there within 25 mins (a mix of 40 mph and 50 mph roads, but with about 15 sets of traffic lights along the way). Coming home its more like 35 mins, and a speed of more like 25 mph, with a far bit of stop start. Is it just the roads and traffic around here that is killing my mpg?

I've read a good few threads on here (although about the 1*2) that changing the lambda sensor can help. But if it was iffy wouldn't it show on the MOT emission test?

 

[MicKPM]

That should be doing around 43mpg but it depends how you're driving it. No, an inefficient HO2 wouldn't ping up an MIL but this is where live data helps fill in the blanks.

Needs a proper check up by someone that isn't just doing a code reading session I'm afraid. When we're plugs last changed? What are MAP/BPS sensor values showing and is it holding boost? Or you could just start fitting new parts without knowing anything and get lucky.

 

[warwickstingray]

A poor driver always blames the car. My 206 2.0 HDI can get anything from 35-50mpg on my 12 mile commute depending on how I drive it. You do know that in many modern cars that if you take your foot of the accelerator when in gear the fuel is turned off. Finding ways to make this happen as often as possible is how I get my higher reading.

Just putting up the other answer if the car is fine!

 

[Noesph]

Spark plugs (and everything else - oil, filters etc) are 6 months old. Mot about a month ago.

I could get mid 50's out of my 106 on the motorway, 40mpg around town. And I can get 45 mpg out of dads laguna iii 2.0 dci with out thinking about it. I actually drive more carefully in the twingo than anything else (it generally is sitting at around 2000 rpm on a constant run) to try and help economy. Trouble is working in South London its very hard to drive at a constant speed, with traffic lights every few 100 yards. Your going be be braking, stopping, accelerating, hit a certain speed, braking, stopping, then accelerating again in a cycle every few minutes.

I know a modern car cuts fuel if you don't touch the accelerator when going downhill (i.e using engine braking). I wouldn't actually mind having a look at the tce bsfc graph if I could find it. I also wonder on a turbo engine if you run at a bit higher rpms to keep the turbo spoiled up, would that actually put less load on the engine?

 

[Noesph]

Anyway, came in from home, pluging in obdii tool. Here is all the info

Diagnostic Report

Created by TouchScan - OCTech, LLC www.obdsoftware.net

Date: 06/23/2015 17:11:51

VIN: VF1CN0C0**********
Manufacturer: Renault
Model: Twingo
Year: 2004
Monitor Status Report

Name Continuous Available Complete
Misfire Yes Yes Yes
Fuel System Yes No No
Components Yes Yes Yes
Catalyst No Yes Yes
Heated Catalyst No No No
Evap System No No No
Secondary Air System No No No
AC Refrigerant No No No
Oxygen Sensor No Yes Yes
Oxygen Sensor Heater No No No
EGR System No No No

MIL Off
Number of Stored Codes: 0

This vehicle is ready for emissions testing.
Trouble Code Report

There are no pending, stored, or permanent diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs).
Service $01 - Powertrain Diagnostic Data

PID Description Value Units
SAE 0x04 Calculated load value 9.8 %
SAE 0x05 Engine coolant temperature 90 C
SAE 0x06 Short term fuel % trim - Bank 1 -10.94 %
SAE 0x07 Long term fuel % trim - Bank 1 -14.06 %
SAE 0x0B Intake manifold absolute pressure 27 kPa
SAE 0x0C Engine RPM 666 RPM
SAE 0x0D Vehicle speed 0 km/h
SAE 0x0E Ignition timing advance for #1 cylinder 5
SAE 0x0F Intake air temperature 41 C
SAE 0x11 Absolute throttle position 12.16 %
SAE 0x14 Oxygen sensor voltage (Bank 1, Sensor 1) 0.65 V
SAE 0x14 Short term fuel trim (Bank 1, Sensor 1) -14.84 %
SAE 0x15 Oxygen sensor voltage (Bank 1, Sensor 2) 0.46 V
SAE 0x15 Short term fuel trim (Bank 1, Sensor 2) -100 %
SAE 0x21 Distance traveled while MIL is activated 0 km
SAE 0x30 Number of warm-ups since DTCs cleared 255
SAE 0x31 Distance traveled since DTCs cleared 31349 km
Custom 0x00 Input voltage read by the scan tool 13.8 V

Service $02 - Freeze Frame Report

A freeze frame was found but the vehicle has no stored trouble codes. This indicates that the freeze frame could contain out-of-date and inaccurate information.

PID Description Value Units
0x03 Fuel system status Open-loop due to insufficient engine temperature
0x04 Calculated load value 0 %
0x05 Engine coolant temperature -40 C
0x06 Short term fuel % trim - Bank 1 0 %
0x07 Long term fuel % trim - Bank 1 0 %
0x0B Intake manifold absolute pressure 10 kPa
0x0C Engine RPM 0 RPM
0x0D Vehicle speed 0 km/h

Service $05 - Oxygen Sensors

Sensor Available
Bank 1 - Sensor 1 Yes
Bank 1 - Sensor 2 Yes
Bank 1 - Sensor 3 No
Bank 1 - Sensor 4 No
Bank 2 - Sensor 1 No
Bank 2 - Sensor 2 No
Bank 2 - Sensor 3 No
Bank 2 - Sensor 4 No

Service $06 - On-Board Monitoring

Component Description Value Minimum Maximum Units Result
$01 - Exhaust Gas Sensor Monitor Bank 1 – Sensor 1 TID $0A - Sensor period (calculated) 0.336 0 1.504 sec Pass
$21 - Catalyst Monitor Bank 1 TID $0A - Sensor period (calculated) 0 0 7650 counts Pass
$81 - Fuel System Monitor Bank 1 TID $84 - Manufacturer Defined -327.67 -327.67 -327.67 % Pass
$81 - Fuel System Monitor Bank 1 TID $85 - Manufacturer Defined -327.67 -327.67 -327.67 % Pass
$A1 - Misfire Monitor General Data TID $86 - Manufacturer Defined 1 0 65535 Pass
$A1 - Misfire Monitor General Data TID $87 - Manufacturer Defined 0 0 65535 Pass

Service $09 - Vehicle Information



General Information
Description Value
Vehicle Identification Number VF1CN0C*********
Calibration ID - $7E8 8200799147
Calibration ID - $7E8 8201015967
Calibration Verification Number Not Available

 

[Noesph]

 

[Martin_172]

Seems about right my pair were never any better than a 172 on fuel, very short gear ratios on them, my mates mk3 clio was better on fuel than mine, which is odd as with the dci and rs the clio 3 was worse than the clio 2

Drive them off boost and they are about the same on fuel as a 1.2 16v but thats horribly slow!

 

[linearvsunison]

Fully aware I'm dragging up a 3 yr old thread but I'm getting a solid 38mpg from a remapped TCE100 in a Clio estate (6 mile commute each way to work, mix of city and country roads).

Either I drive like a grandad or you definitely had problems with the Twingo....

 

[DrR]

I had a twingo 1.2 none turbo, my fiesta ST was better on fuel.

 

[Noesph]

I still have it, for 5 1/2 years now. Still doing low 30s, high 20s most of the time.

But I do hammer it a bit when I can and other times stuck in heavy traffic. It takes me an hour to do 8 miles some nights. Average is half an hour in the morning, 35-40 minutes to get home after work.

That said last year I did a weekend trip from South London to Sheffield, miles upon miles of 50 mph average speed camera roadworks, got around 54mpg out of it then if I remember right.

Also I found out it was remapped at some point. I took it to Surrey rolling road last summer, 125 bhp, 170 nm of torque.