Does the F4R engine suffer from Oil surge when using slicks on track?

[Porkie]

Or is it fine as std? did the cup racers have any different sump baffles? or all std?

Thanks

 

[Soot1e]

Not happened on my trackday. I have 15" Advan tyres so not completely slicks although I can't see what difference the tyres make to oil surge.
Usually just topping up the oil to 1 or 2mm. over the dipstick max is enough to prevent surge on any car.
Is the sump baffled? I would like to know that answer as well.

 

[Porkie]

Not happened on my trackday. I have 15" Advan tyres so not completely slicks although I can't see what difference the tyres make to oil surge.
Usually just topping up the oil to 1 or 2mm. over the dipstick max is enough to prevent surge on any car.
Is the sump baffled? I would like to know that answer as well.

Slick tyres make ALL the difference to oil surge! certainly in previous trackcars I have had! I had a VERY costly mistake at Mallory on a BRAND new Reyland Cosworth engine.

I also TOTALLY disagree with your advice on topping up oil guarding against oil surge of any car!

I REALLY don't mean this to sound rude, but replying to technical questions like this when you clearly don't know the answer is not only not helpful. Its potentially costly for people that listen to you!

 

[Russ_16v]

Not happened on my trackday. I have 15" Advan tyres so not completely slicks although I can't see what difference the tyres make to oil surge.
Usually just topping up the oil to 1 or 2mm. over the dipstick max is enough to prevent surge on any car.
Is the sump baffled? I would like to know that answer as well.

This can be a very dangerous thing to do even a small amount!

 

[Ali]

Fella, RS forum and go in the technical bit, it's answered by a number of the Ex Cup Racer guys...I think that would be your safest bet.

 

[Porkie]

Great response. Thanks Ali

 

[Cookson]

Surely Fred can confirm if there's a windage tray int he sump or not

 

[chrispy.clio]

I'm 99% sure someone on here got a baffled sump fitted and Fred said that it was not needed as the Cup racers dont use one and they are on slicks.

 

[Naith]

gonna have to wait a good few days from fred he's not about... if its desperate though i can ask him and relay it to you?

 

[Gray]

not needed, the cup racers never had any internal changes... The clios run a plastic "tray" to retain some oil below the crank (my super technical explanation)

Done.

 

[sideways danny]

not needed, the cup racers never had any internal changes... The clios run a plastic "tray" to retain some oil below the crank (my super technical explanation)

Done.

plastic tray (windage tray) is to stop the crank dragging in the sump oil

Only ever heard of surge once. Think it was round a very long fast corner at mallory

 

[Cup_Phil]

I can't see what difference the tyres make to oil surge.

WOW.. just wow

 

[Gray]

plastic tray (windage tray) is to stop the crank dragging in the sump oil

Only ever heard of surge once. Think it was round a very long fast corner at mallory

Yeah, thats what I meant.... Honest :approve:

 

[f0xy]

Mine was alright on cut slicks all day at Mallory last year, Gerrards was a good 10-15 seconds of constant 100mph right handed cornering, never had any engine/oil problems. Probably due to the cheap'o nasty 10w40 I use being nice and thick lol.

 

[Russ_16v]

When warm 10 40 is no thicker than 5 40 lol

 

[LeeP86]

Standard sump on my cup racer and i don't suffer from it, as gray said the cup racer came with standard internals.

 

[f0xy]

When warm 10 40 is no thicker than 5 40 lol

Who knows if this £6 per 5l is even 10w40, its probably crude oil lol.

 

[Porkie]

Gerrards is the corner that cost me the new YB engine!

Thanks for respones. Sounds like no worries!


cheers guys.

 

[Timmyevo6]

i know this is an old thread but i was looking for any tips on oil surge.

it was a known fact in clio cup that they suffered from oil surge, the teams ran a bit more oil to cope. there are 2 main corners that cause this in uk, gerrards and the bomb hole. clio cup didn't race at mallory but they tested alot.

and to anyone who drives their clio cup racer on slick that hasn't suffered surge of some point.....try using the pedal on the left more!
anyone have any info on baffled sumps?

 

[geesus69]

i found a dry sump kit to fit an F4R, was used in a formula renault car due to the low engine mounting and them using a shallow sump to compensate (relaying info from the seller so don't shoot me if that's wrong lol)

however......

the kit new from renault sport is alot of pennies! so even second hand i was looking at £500 ish for the whole setup

 

[Fred@BTM]

i know this is an old thread but i was looking for any tips on oil surge.

it was a known fact in clio cup that they suffered from oil surge, the teams ran a bit more oil to cope. there are 2 main corners that cause this in uk, gerrards and the bomb hole. clio cup didn't race at mallory but they tested alot.

and to anyone who drives their clio cup racer on slick that hasn't suffered surge of some point.....try using the pedal on the left more!
anyone have any info on baffled sumps?

how does the clutch pedal make you faster?

 

[Craigus]

i know this is an old thread but i was looking for any tips on oil surge.

it was a known fact in clio cup that they suffered from oil surge, the teams ran a bit more oil to cope. there are 2 main corners that cause this in uk, gerrards and the bomb hole. clio cup didn't race at mallory but they tested alot.

and to anyone who drives their clio cup racer on slick that hasn't suffered surge of some point.....try using the pedal on the left more!
anyone have any info on baffled sumps?

Does using the clutch cause oil surge?

 

[Tony Hunter]

99.9% sure cup racers did not have baffled sumps.We had no worries at Mallory either.Fuel starvation yes but thats why we put a swirl pot in.

 

[Silent_Scone]

nobody has ever said they do and if the cup racers run without that'd put my mind at rest if it was me..

Our spire ran a baffled sump but that thing could pull probably double the G's you're ever going to get out of one of these lol



poet didn't know it

 

[CCrispUK]

For a non-techie like myself, can anyone explain what is oil surge? Ta

 

[bmh.01]

For a non-techie like myself, can anyone explain what is oil surge? Ta

When under hard cornering the oil is moved to one side of the sump and it uncovers the oil pump pickup. So you loose oil pressure, if unnoticed its baaaaaaaad m'kay.

 

[Sam@NP]

Clios do not need baffled sumps when run on slicks

 

[Tony Hunter]

There you go then.

 

[J.W]

Never thought I'd see this topic again after I fitted one when building Jack Knight straight cut gearbox for my Mini back in '99

 

[Bassplayer]

Never thought I'd see this topic again after I fitted one when building Jack Knight straight cut gearbox for my Mini back in '99

Ah, yes. The bit of bent pipe to put the oil pick up in the middle. Remember those well, when I built my Mini in, err... '75

 

[Tony Hunter]

Our old Escort sumps were bad for that,dry sumped job done.

 

[Timmyevo6]

how many of you guys that state the clio doesn't suffer from surge actually work for clio cup race teams during the mk2 era? how many of you guys bang a clio pinned through coram in 4th while the car want to exit stage left?

perhaps my car is different? perhaps my mates clio that blew an engine at mallory is differnent? maybe all the knackered engine out of the cup racers of the mk2 era are different?

i know for certain that if i had a built motor in my cup racer, it'd have a baffled sump!


yes, the go pedal is on the right, maybe thats while i suffer from oil surge and never go anywhere?

 

[Tony Hunter]

Why do you always end up getting tetchy in these threads?

 

[J.W]

Ah, yes. The bit of bent pipe to put the oil pick up in the middle. Remember those well, when I built my Mini in, err... '75

I remember mine well when going to install the pipe at the end of the build and realising it had to be the first component fitted into the box due to the new route of the pipe as opposed to the standard one which came in and out with ease ha ha!

 

[Teds]

I remember mine well when going to install the pipe at the end of the build and realising it had to be the first component fitted into the box due to the new route of the pipe as opposed to the standard one which came in and out with ease ha ha!

You still run them today in 2011, My mini would not make it round the 1st corner with out one. O and its much quicker than my 172 to.

 

[Timmyevo6]

Why do you always end up getting tetchy in these threads?

coz i'm a c**t who doesn't like it when people tell me something i don't wanna hear.

 

[Gray]

If your that worried why not just baffle the sump?!

 

[Sam@NP]

how many of you guys that state the clio doesn't suffer from surge actually work for clio cup race teams during the mk2 era? how many of you guys bang a clio pinned through coram in 4th while the car want to exit stage left?

perhaps my car is different? perhaps my mates clio that blew an engine at mallory is differnent? maybe all the knackered engine out of the cup racers of the mk2 era are different?

i know for certain that if i had a built motor in my cup racer, it'd have a baffled sump!


yes, the go pedal is on the right, maybe thats while i suffer from oil surge and never go anywhere?

I have several wins in British GT and many other championships. I have also driven several clio cup race cars.
:rasp:

 

[theduck]

how many of you guys that state the clio doesn't suffer from surge actually work for clio cup race teams during the mk2 era? how many of you guys bang a clio pinned through coram in 4th while the car want to exit stage left?

perhaps my car is different? perhaps my mates clio that blew an engine at mallory is differnent? maybe all the knackered engine out of the cup racers of the mk2 era are different?

i know for certain that if i had a built motor in my cup racer, it'd have a baffled sump!


yes, the go pedal is on the right, maybe thats while i suffer from oil surge and never go anywhere?

Perhaps you were low on oil

 

[Timmyevo6]

I have several wins in British GT and many other championships. I have also driven several clio cup race cars.
:rasp:

nice! what years did you race in clio cup and which team ran you?