Engine angles and position

[Grats]

Help needed here.

I am fitting a 197 engine intomy 182 rally car, before everyone asks why I acquired a 197 Sadev box so I feel it’s easierthe change engines rather than run an adaptor plate etc etc. I am intending touse the 197 race mounts well the bits that bolt to the engine / box mated up tofabricated chassis mounting brackets.

Does anyone know what the engineincline angle is, i.e. how much does it tilt back? If anyone also has any otherset out measurements so I can check the engine position that would be great.

cheers

 

[Chip-mk1]

Top mount on the engine side is the same fitment anyway on 197 engine or 172.
the block and head casting are the same. Just machined differently.

 

[Grats]

thanks, very very new to Clios but yes they do look very simular, well they are the same engine but it looks like i would have to drill and tap the head to fit 182 mounts??? Well at least i would need all the 182 cam covers etc which i dont have. I will have another look tonight and recheck this. I also undertand that the engine on a 182 race car is mounted lower and futher forward (using subframe mounts) to ensure the drive shafts line up, the Sadev box is bigger than the standard 182 box, is this correct?? Anyway i have the 197 mounts (came with the box) so it might more cost effective to use them.

cheers

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yes you do need to drill and tap, I have a 197 head on my 172 and thats how MWM (who did the conversion originally) did it.

Is your car currently engineless then?

If so just buy the mount parts off someone on here who is breaking one.


Car sounds epic by the way, please get a project thread up!

 

[Chip-mk1]

PS

The cam cover is the same, just use the 197 cam cover.

In fact it would be an error to use a 182 one as the cam caps are machined into it and you risk the clearance being wrong if you fit one from another engine, they are a matched pair with the head.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ps

Here is how my engine sits with the 197 head and inlet etc on it.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?646865-Clio-172-phase-1-turbo

I assume you will be going for bodies anyway though?

 

[p@blo]

I also undertand that the engine on a 182 race car is mounted lower and futher forward (using subframe mounts) to ensure the drive shafts line up, the Sadev box is bigger than the standard 182 box, is this correct??

cheers

The mk2 solid mounts move the engine slightly further to the o/s-presumably account for a slightly wider offset on the diff casing or line up shift arm maybe? Not sure they mount it any further down tbh-haven't measured up and compared but looked a similar height up front comparing where the regular jc5 lower box mount would fit.

The earlier ST-SDA & later ST75 on the mk2 cars uses the standard JC5 casing mount points (not sure if the newer variant you have is the same though). I ran a std jc5 box with these mounts at Oulton-it just bolts straight on.

 

[Grats]

Sorry guys when i said 'cam cover' i missed the word belt out - as far as i can see i would need to drill the head to fit the 182 engine mount and cam belt covers but as i need to move the engine forward (and lower) to line up the shafts the chassis mounts would need to be changed anyway - so i will stick to the 197 set up but i need ideally the incline angle of the engine - any ideas where i can get it from.

Would love to start up a thread on the build but as this is now 'Dad rallying' its going to take so long poeple would just get board waiting for the next installment :approve:

 

[Chip-mk1]

So basically you just want someone to go and put an iphone with a sprit level or whatever on the top of the engine whilst their car is parked on flat ground?

 

[Grats]

That a good idea, if someone can do that that would be great. Ideally it needs to be accross the cam cover, i am running the car on TB's and dont have the standard inlet manifold.

So if someone has a 1*2 on TB and can measure the angle across the cam cover (when the car level) that should give me a good starting point.

cheers

 

[Chip-mk1]

I can do it at the weekend (im working away from home at the moment) if no one else offers first, we dont have ITBs but do have good access to the cam cover as we have an RS2 on one of our other cars.

 

[Grats]

Thanks that would be great. If you can conform across which point the mesurent was taken - with a pic?? that would be a real help.

Cheers

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ok mate, will do. The gearbox end front cam cap bolts look like quite a good bet?


Bump this thread at the weekend to remind me.

 

[Grats]

Ok will do - thanks, here is a pic of what i am looking at. Sorry small photo not to sure how to import bigger images or how to make them bigger - new to Clio and new to all this.

cheers

 

[Daverb]

Not sure if a 172 clio cup racer subframe would work? The engine mount connects to the power steering holes. Then 2 mounts attach to the gearbox.

Gearbox mounts might be different I suppose.

 

[Grats]

Thanks, yes agree, i think i am going to stick with chassis mounting the engine. Just need the engine angle and I can fabricate suitable chassis mounts to match up to the 197/200 race mounts.

cheers

 

[Grats]

Chip a reminder as requested to measure engine angle, could you also please take a measuremnt say on the door sill as a datum point.

cheers

 

[Chip-mk1]

2 degrees tip forward on the sill, 12 degrees tip back on the engine.
So 14 degrees relative to sill.

Thats just on an I phone app though so can't guarantee accuracy.

 

[Grats]

thanks, very helpfull, where did you measure it on the engine.

cheers