Engine blown on rolling road

[Kiq12]

Worst month of my life ever!! Said the other week how I got charged £380 for wheel re-furb. Anyway off to Gillingham today to have my car rolling roaded. Firstly I curbed my wheel in a narrow lane, cos of an on coming taxi, then I was 15 mins late.



Got there (Autotechnics, Gillingham), they put in on the r/r, I was sat in the passenger side. Started up and off we went, expecting to get a minimum of 156 BHP as this is what the previous owner got(Graph to prove), Only got 120 BHP at the fly wheel!!! He said it didn’t work properly, but still this is about the figure I should expect(Is that bollox?) so just before we tried again the whole machine cut out. Turned it back on and again got about 120 BHP. He said the machine must be playing up so gave it one last go!! Just as we started we heard a big rattling, another guy checked and said luckily it wasn’t my car but the actual r/r(Should have realised something was up then)Anyway we got to 4th gear just to about 7.5RPM, then all we hear is a huge BANG! He opens the door and smoke is everywhere!! And the r/r is covered in oil! I left the scene for a bit just absolutely shocked!! Came back and the guy said I couldn’t drive it(and my dad had to pick me up) Looks to me that they may have completely blown the whole engine!! They think they have just blown the con-rod on piston 2. Anyway I went absolutely mad!! They didn’t even have a car for me to use(that’s why my dad came)

It looks like that the r/r seized to a stop cos of a bearing(That’s where the smoke came from by the looks of it) and as they were still booting my car the wheels keep going and has obviously f$$ked my car!!

It could be up to 3 weeks till I get my car back!!

Please, please tell me that this is definitely their fault and they should foot the bill???!!! I don’t want them coming back next week saying it was my cars fault!! It was on their property, and they were the one actually doing the r/r driving!!



Any replies will be really really appreciated!










[Edited by Kiq12 on 10 December 2004 at 7:00pm]

 

[Martin]

sh*t man thats well bad, sounds like they were at fault but getting them to take responsibility might be another thing. Oh and I wouldnt be surprised if your engine blew if it was revving to 7.5K!!! You sure you dont mean 6.5k?

 

[007]

7,500 RPM on a Williams?

Yours must be quite modded is it as that seems way too high?

Im not sure whos fault it is to be honest, my RS nearly had the same fate on saturday but I was lucky.

 

[Illusion]

Gutted for ya fella...

Every RR ive been on, ive had to sign a waver to say that I will not hold them responsible if something goes wrong - did u?

120 at the fly is very low...

 

[Mole]

hi mate, are you from round gillingham, as i am.

If their equipment (the rolling road) was faulty, and is busted, and caused your engine to go bang, then it is their fault, althou id look for any small print anywhere.
Could be an "At your own risk" sortof thing, lets hope not.

 

[Kiq12]

its a williams 1. The previous owner stated he had a stage 2 engine Re-map and superchip. So this may account to the reason that the throttle doesnt cut-out at 7K RPM, just keeps goin!

 

[BigBoreBri]

Best be carefull on this one mate, my advice is if looks even slightly that they are not going to fix the car then get straight to a solicitor or trading standards etc...

I know someone who took his MK1 golf to get rolling roaded and it ended up setting on fire!!! The guy took about 5 minutes to find a fire extinguisher, and after he got the fire put out he said "oh dont worry about paying for the session mate"!

I would have hit the fooking roof but my mate just left it, cars now sat in bits with half a burnt out engine in it... great!

 

[Martin]

Oh dear...I wouldnt take a Williams much past 6.9/7k.....you sure it was the rolling road that broke your car as I cant see the F7r liking a constant 7.5k!?

 

[007]

Quote: Originally posted by Martin. on 10 December 2004

Oh dear...I wouldnt take a Williams much past 6.9/7k.....you sure it was the rolling road that broke your car as I cant see the F7r liking a constant 7.5k!?

Yes im no expert but Renault felt the need to restrict it to a pathetically low 6,500rpm for a reason.

I agree with Bri on it.

 

[Lunner]

Did you not sign a wiver, if they are decent people at the rolling road they will offer to foot the bill, but if you signed a waver then legially they dont have to do squat, they might offer to go halves on the repairs or soemthing though

 

[Kiq12]

I didnt sign anything atall!! And I didn’t see any signs stating would be my responsibility! The only reason I wanted the R/R was because the previous owner stated should have BHP of 172, and I didn’t want to boast about this until it was proven, cos currently I only have an old graph showing 156BHP before much of the engine work was carried out! I wasnt the one in the drivers seat, it was the catul bloke wedging it past th 7k mark? Is this still my fault?(Though i did tell him that it doesnt cut out at 7k). But im sure it must still be their fault if their R/R seized up. Correct?

 

[BigBoreBri]

Quote: Originally posted by 007 on 10 December 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Martin. on 10 December 2004

Oh dear...I wouldnt take a Williams much past 6.9/7k.....you sure it was the rolling road that broke your car as I cant see the F7r liking a constant 7.5k!?

Yes im no expert but Renault felt the need to restrict it to a pathetically low 6,500rpm for a reason.

I agree with Bri on it.

Yay!

I seem to remember someone else having blown a conrod on a F7R engine too...

 

[Mole]

i wouldve thought that if the RR seized, your car wouldve jumped forward off the rollers.
I know they are tied back, but not sure if they could hold the car back with that amount of force

 

[Kiq12]

Yes it was tied back. Quite funny as before hand id did actualy say, what would happen if they stoped etc. They said that it wouldnt move any way, it would just stall(cant remeber their explanation on this but thats what they defo said)

 

[BigBoreBri]

Seen some nice vids of 1000bhp skylines trying to jump of the rollers... nasty!

While were here can i go slightly off subject...

Am i right in thinking the cranks are the same in the F4R and F7R engines?

Shoot me down like a wet squirel if im wrong!

If so the "bore x stroke" is the same in both engines so wheres the problem with the F7R engine not taking high revs coming from? Could it be the con-rods arent strong enough?

 

[FATBOY]

why bother booting the arse of your car on a rolling road?? and who cares if its fast or not??? thats imho

but mate im gutted for ya! hope you get the beast back on the road!

 

[Mole]

Kiq12 - u local to medway? how long u had the williams, also any distinct things on it that would make it noticeable, as ive seen a williams around, which had a sunstrip

 

[Martin]

Quote: Originally posted by FATBOY on 10 December 2004


why bother booting the arse of your car on a rolling road?? and who cares if its fast or not??? thats imho

Quite a few people who buy a hot hatch I guess...its good to know whether youve got a good un or how effective any mods youve done are...

 

[Kiq12]

Im actually located im Bmth. Had it about 2 months now and alreaday spent quite a bit on it. Sorting out the bonnet and the rusty arches, new alternator, and the stupidly expensive wheel re-furb!!. No real distinguishing features really, though it DOESNT have the williams stickers(Due to re-spray), and delocked. Thats about all

 

[davep24]

Quote: Originally posted by Illusion on 10 December 2004


Gutted for ya fella...

Every RR ive been on, ive had to sign a waver to say that I will not hold them responsible if something goes wrong - did u?

120 at the fly is very low...

these waivers are not worth the paper they are written on, the car is in thier possesion and they are responsible for it. if something breaks or is damaged through their negligence then they are at fault.

would you sign a waiver when you take your car to renault for a service?

 

[Daz]

RRs usually ask ya what to rev it too.. either off the limiter or up to a point.

Williams should limit at 6.5k.. standard.

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by BigBoreBri on 10 December 2004

Am i right in thinking the cranks are the same in the F4R and F7R engines?
Shoot me down like a wet squirel if im wrong!

If so the "bore x stroke" is the same in both engines so wheres the problem with the F7R engine not taking high revs coming from? Could it be the con-rods arent strong enough?

The extra volume for the F7R engine came form using a 1.9 diesel crank and bigger pisons.

The problem with the 2.0 taking the rpm is down to the heavier pistons I believe.

 

[Adams_16v]

bad news that fuker! But as mentioned 7.5k is a lot for a F7R! They should let off when the power starts to fall, and i doubt it will still be making power at those revs.

Just ensure they sort it mate! it is quite scary when ur cars on the rollers! 100+mph when the cars stationary!

 

[V6'ing]

Quote: Originally posted by Illusion on 10 December 2004


Gutted for ya fella...

Every RR ive been on, ive had to sign a waver to say that I will not hold them responsible if something goes wrong - did u?






Same here, when I had mine done @ Superchips. But in this case, there was obviously a fault with there RR. Which was fully responsible for the damage caused to your engine.

Good luck anyway!

 

[John V6]

What did you sign, this will be the crucial item.



Have a feeling if I remember correctly you will have signed an imdemnity which absolves them from evry thing.

 

[D-CUP]

I dont see how anything to do with the RR could cause your engine to blow. Even if a bearing went in the roller so what? All your car is doing is what it would do on a real road. The fact it was only getting 120bhp also indicates there was something wrong with the car and it was on its way out.

Sorry, but I very much doubt its their fault.

 

[Adams_16v]

yeah but what happens if the engine is under full throttle and the RR which the car is strapped into stops completely causing the wheels to stop instantly?

 

[BigBoreBri]

Quote: Originally posted by D-CUP on 10 December 2004


I dont see how anything to do with the RR could cause your engine to blow. Even if a bearing went in the roller so what? All your car is doing is what it would do on a real road. The fact it was only getting 120bhp also indicates there was something wrong with the car and it was on its way out.

Sorry, but I very much doubt its their fault.

Erm... Its not often your flat out on the open road and suddenly your car stops moving and the wheels are left spinning at 120 on the asphalt!!

Sorry but thats the reverse logic from what your sayin if the bearing on the RR seized!

 

[northy]

Bloody hell im gutted for you Kiq12, hope everything gets sorted out pal.

7.5rpm +

 

[Andyvalver]

7500rpm!!!

Really feel for ya mate. Personally i think your engine must of been on its way out. 7.5k is way too much for a f7r. Its gonna throw a rod when held at that sort of rpm.

 

[keevster]

Quote: Originally posted by D-CUP on 10 December 2004


I dont see how anything to do with the RR could cause your engine to blow. Even if a bearing went in the roller so what? All your car is doing is what it would do on a real road. The fact it was only getting 120bhp also indicates there was something wrong with the car and it was on its way out.

Sorry, but I very much doubt its their fault.



I agree with you matey. Carried out many a rolling road. even if the rollers where goosed but still spinning there would be no difference, it would just mean you will not get a reading of your BHP AND TORQUE. If the rollers where seized you would know about it, wouldnt be just the engine that was goosed.

When entering a RR, they should ask you what revs you want it taken to. Also mate you have no come back whatsoever i am afraid. It was your choice that you put it on the rollers, so it basically falls at you.

Its a bummer bud, but thats life in the fast lane, ye take yer chances.

My last rolling road was with my scoob, the fecker was pinking its head off, and they almost blindly refused to give it a second run, but my choice and i opted for the second run, all on my own head.

Keevster

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by Adams_16v on 10 December 2004

yeah but what happens if the engine is under full throttle and the RR which the car is strapped into stops completely causing the wheels to stop instantly?

your clutch slips and you stall.

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by edde on 10 December 2004

Quote: Originally posted by BigBoreBri on 10 December 2004

Am i right in thinking the cranks are the same in the F4R and F7R engines?
Shoot me down like a wet squirel if im wrong!

If so the "bore x stroke" is the same in both engines so wheres the problem with the F7R engine not taking high revs coming from? Could it be the con-rods arent strong enough?

The extra volume for the F7R engine came form using a 1.9 diesel crank and bigger pisons.

The problem with the 2.0 taking the rpm is down to the heavier pistons I believe.

Cranks are different, pistons are diff, only the rods are the same....ren have been using the same rods in most of their engines for ages and there is nothing really wrong with them.

The F7R doesnt rev because of piston speeds and aceleration rates and quality of the crankshaft itself. Pistons are more than fine.

 

[MarkRS]

Quote: Originally posted by Kiq12 on 10 December 2004


It looks like that the r/r seized to a stop cos of a bearing(That’s where the smoke came from by the looks of it) and as they were still booting my car the wheels keep going and has obviously f$$ked my car!!










[Edited by Kiq12 on 10 December 2004 at 7:00pm]

umm if the rolling road seized then the car would have aggresively tried to get out the rollers surely ??

Sounds like the engine was just being revved far to hard and thats why it went. - As said its only meant to go to 6500 any higher and its being seriously damaged, so 7.5 for a while would have defo killed it.

Not really sure who should pay, but they shouldnt have been revving it that high as theres no power up there its pointless.

hope you get it sorted mate.

 

[Andy GDI]

well if it were me, I would have a polite conversation with the company and see how they are willing to help, most places will probably meet you half way.... its not really anything the RR operator has done wrong, and I have never heard of a RR seizing dead just like that..... strange....

I think there are other things that would break first like the driveshafts and clutch etc etc...

think about wheel spins..... full throttle, dump clutch... the wheels usually go first... not the engine!

there is no point going down the legal route until you have spoken to the company...

7.5k is a little high, but if it were on the way out then its not going to take well to it.

its a hard one mate, but a nice chat with the company will hopfully sort things out, I am sure they are very concerned and did not do anything intentionally or via neglegance...

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 10 December 2004

Cranks are different, pistons are diff, only the rods are the same....ren have been using the same rods in most of their engines for ages and there is nothing really wrong with them.
The F7R doesnt rev because of piston speeds and aceleration rates and quality of the crankshaft itself. Pistons are more than fine.

So you cannot rev the engine since its crank is weaker? I assume if you use lightweight pistons you could up the safe operating rpm? Since forces will be less?

Would sticking the 1.8 crank into a 2.0 allow you to use higher RPM? Ok youd loose some capacity but would the higher possible rpm make up the difference?

 

[Zmaster2k]

sh*t Autotechnics have my car booked in next week

I used to work next door to em! (big blue building all around it)

Having my doubts now to weather i take it there!

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by edde on 10 December 2004

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 10 December 2004

Cranks are different, pistons are diff, only the rods are the same....ren have been using the same rods in most of their engines for ages and there is nothing really wrong with them.
The F7R doesnt rev because of piston speeds and aceleration rates and quality of the crankshaft itself. Pistons are more than fine.

So you cannot rev the engine since its crank is weaker? I assume if you use lightweight pistons you could up the safe operating rpm? Since forces will be less?

Would sticking the 1.8 crank into a 2.0 allow you to use higher RPM? Ok youd loose some capacity but would the higher possible rpm make up the difference?

Its not just the crank alone, with the extra stroke the forces that the rods/ and pistons experience at the same RPM are much higher.

And you cant stick the 1.8 crank in there or youll loose all compression and be running on something like a 3-4:1 CR.

And due to the nature of the cylinder head, it is much more receptive to a larger capacity per cylinder. Youd have to run some severe rpm on the 1.8 to make the same power as a 2ltr. And in which case you would have to run a steel crank in both cases, so a 2ltr would just be the better option.

 

[stan*]

Quote: Originally posted by edde on 10 December 2004


The extra volume for the F7R engine came form using a 1.9 diesel crank and bigger pisons.

The problem with the 2.0 taking the rpm is down to the heavier pistons I believe.

Longer stroke=more piston travel. therefore piston has to travel further in same crank angle=faster. therefore peak piston velocity is greater=greater inertial loading

 

[Andy GDI]

stan.... sounds very technical mate...