Engine Dynamics + 421 Catcams

[Greeny.]

 

[Mr R.]

Nice figure mate, my old PH1 made 192.1hp and 160ft lbs at RS tuning but that was with the standard PH1 air box set up although I did have the head ported/inlets and supertech valves.

 

[Daz...]

Nice. Did you get any figures before the cams?

 

[Greeny.]

Nice. Did you get any figures before the cams?

I’m afraid not no, however the timing was all over the place before the cams were fitted so wouldn’t have been a overly fair comparison anyway tbh.

 

[Mr Plums]

I bet thats nippy mate!

Can you tell a deference?

 

[hipwell]

What's the spec of the car mate other than the cams?

 

[Greeny.]

I bet thats nippy mate!

Can you tell a deference?

Feels great on track when I can mostly keep it above 5k

 

[Mr Plums]

Feels great on track when I can mostly keep it above 5k :smile:

Does it feel more gutless below 5k?

 

[Greeny.]

What's the spec of the car mate other than the cams?

Just basic stuff tbh:

Ktec induction kit
Homemade matched inlets
De-cat
2.25” Janspeed (Ktec) supersport exhaust
197 Injectors

Got to the point where I’ll need to spend a lot more to get any more power, still tempted by a RS2 inlet mind you, will probably get one next year to hope to get nearer the 200bhp figure.

 

[Greeny.]

Does it feel more gutless below 5k?

Na just as gutless as it did before lol

 

[hipwell]

Na just as gutless as it did before lol :smiley:

Lol I guess turbo is the only way if you want driveability below 5k

 

[Greeny.]

Lol I guess turbo is the only way if you want driveability below 5k

Tbh I have no issues with it below 5k, more than driveable, it is what it is I guess. I was looking at going the turbo route but couldn’t justify the cost. I do like the thought of keeping the lump n/a but saying that turbo is definitely the way to go to get decent figures as you would expect really but it would cost me over 3 times the amount a set of cams and a remap did.

 

[Fletcher]

Good figures! I am due another cambelt change next year, so probably chuck some 421/438s in at the same time.

 

[Greeny.]

Good figures! I am due another cambelt change next year, so probably chuck some 421/438s in at the same time.

421’s all day

 

[Matt1234]

I have got the sm inlet with 438 cams and made 199.9bhp. Torque peaks at 3500rpm. If you can get a rs2 well worth it.

 

[Greeny.]

I have got the sm inlet with 438 cams and made 199.9bhp. Torque peaks at 3500rpm. If you can get a rs2 well worth it.

On standard management? Who mapped it out of interest?

 

[leeds2592]

That's a great figure, would the cost of an RS2 actually be worth it for, what will be, only a couple more bhp?

 

[JamesBryan]

Good figures! I am due another cambelt change next year, so probably chuck some 421/438s in at the same time.

421’s all day :smile:

438's are the same as 421's apart from the 438's idle better.

You can get that power from 197 cams though for a quarter of the price :wink:

 

[Fletcher]

438's are the same as 421's apart from the 438's idle better.

You can get that power from 197 cams though for a quarter of the price :wink:

Would the 197 cams need group N timing to achieve similar power figures?

 

[JamesBryan]

Would the 197 cams need group N timing to achieve similar power figures?

They need special timing yes.

A lad i know with a 172 cup has 197 cams with a standard inlet and it made 195bhp and 177ftlbs at EFI.

 

[leeds2592]

Do cat cams require special timing? If not, seems a bit pointless going for 197 cams over 421s or 438s, other than them being a bit cheaper initially but after getting the special timing, it'd would work out the same?

 

[JamesBryan]

Do cat cams require special timing? If not, seems a bit pointless going for 197 cams over 421s or 438s, other than them being a bit cheaper initially but after getting the special timing, it'd would work out the same?

Cat Cams run standard timing or custom (with the non VVT version).

Timing the 197 cams in won't cost anymore than what it would to time them to standard.

 

[Fletcher]

They need special timing yes.

A lad i know with a 172 cup has 197 cams with a standard inlet and it made 195bhp and 177ftlbs at EFI.

Good figures!

I would also take my 172 to EFI for mapping.

Do cat cams require special timing? If not, seems a bit pointless going for 197 cams over 421s or 438s, other than them being a bit cheaper initially but after getting the special timing, it'd would work out the same?

Having group N timing doesn’t really cost any more money. My understanding is you just need the group N timing tool when you change the cambelt.

 

[JamesBryan]

The only 2 people i know of that know how to do the timing of the 197 cams is @bloke and @NorthloopCup

Probably a few others around that know as well though.

 

[leeds2592]

Cat Cams run standard timing or custom (with the non VVT version).

Timing the 197 cams in won't cost anymore than what it would to time them to standard.

Good figures!

I would also take my 172 to EFI for mapping.



Having group N timing doesn’t really cost any more money. My understanding is you just need the group N timing tool when you change the cambelt.

Thanks for the replies guys, I've never looked into cams so don't know anything about them really so just asking for my own learning

 

[JamesBryan]

You'd get the top figures with an epas/manual rack and air con delete too.

 

[Greeny.]

End of the day all power figures are irreverent to a certain degree, there are so many factors at play.

Interesting that catcams would release two different sets of cams that are ultimately the same spec though.

 

[JamesBryan]

End of the day all power figures are irreverent to a certain degree, there are so many factors at play.

Interesting that catcams would release two different sets of cams that are ultimately the same spec though.

The 438's are Ktec's custom ones that are made for them by Cat Cams.

This is the specs for both, although they don't list the lift at tdc specs for the 438's

5502421 | 276 / 268° | 240 / 231° | 11.25 / 10.25mm | 0.65 / 2.25mm

5502438 | 276 / 268 | 240 / 231 | 11.25 / 10.25 mm

 

[bloke]

I have got the sm inlet with 438 cams and made 199.9bhp. Torque peaks at 3500rpm. If you can get a rs2 well worth it.

my sm did 201bhp on standard cams :wink:

 

[JamesBryan]

my sm did 201bhp on standard cams :wink:

Didn't one of yours do 208bhp? Or was that on other cams?

 

[bloke]

Didn't one of yours do 208bhp? Or was that on other cams?

that was with cams changed.

 

[leeds2592]

my sm did 201bhp on standard cams :wink:

That just with the inlet and mapped? Must have been a healthy engine to start with?!

 

[imprezaworks]

Yeah went well that flamer

 

[bloke]

That just with the inlet and mapped? Must have been a healthy engine to start with?!

phase 1, epas and pms manifold back exhaust.

 

[JamesBryan]

Yeah went well that flamer

Went being the keyword...

Any news on it Carl?

 

[bloke]

Went being the keyword...

Any news on it Carl?

chucked a spare engine in just to get it moving but got everything for a forged, high comp, bodied screamer. well everything apart from the time to build it that is!!

hopefully get it built over next couple of weeks and get it in.

 

[JamesBryan]

chucked a spare engine in just to get it moving but got everything for a forged, high comp, bodied screamer. well everything apart from the time to build it that is!!

hopefully get it built over next couple of weeks and get it in.

Sounds proper!

 

[imprezaworks]

Huh, flamer sickly?

 

[bloke]

Huh, flamer sickly?

yup, thought i'd said? think oil pump threw a wobbler, spun a shell by the sound of it and locked up. not stripped the engine yet to find out what it was.

 

[imprezaworks]

Gutted. Hope you sort it