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Engine Dynamics Cams



  Lionel Richie
at a quick glance they look like the same spec as C&B cams, speak to JMS for confirmation though, cheap, figures are "interesting"
 
Wondered if BBPT were ever going to re-appear. Now I know :)

Websites a bit s**t though, I might be having a reading fail but it seems they are offering a high comp 197 engine build for £1600....
 
  Black R27, 205gti
Interesting. So do they give the same BHP as a Pug 206? ;)

On a serious note, It would be interesting to see an opinion of someone who has these fitted? Price wise, looks appealing.

edit: realised they wont be available until maybe later this month?
 

fil_b

ClioSport Club Member
  172 FF and Fabia VRS
do you need aftermarket ecu to run them??

thought 428's was the only ones you can run with stock?
 
  Ph1
Sure the euro lads are using Henk RS Tuner maps on the stock ecu iirc. Might be wrong.

Sure the 428 thing is a quote by someone who claimed their about the wildest out the Cat Cam range you can run on stock ecu due to rough idling? You'd have to speak to a mapper tho
 
Sure the euro lads are using Henk RS Tuner maps on the stock ecu iirc. Might be wrong.

Sure the 428 thing is a quote by someone who claimed their about the wildest out the Cat Cam range you can run on stock ecu due to rough idling? You'd have to speak to a mapper tho


Correct. There plenty of other Cams you can run on stock ecu.

Also as you say, lots of klads use Henks maps for Cams.
 
  Clio 172
On a side note has anyone used their short shift lever?.

what doe's everyone reckon to their 172 Performance rebuild cost seems to good to be true?.
 
  Renaultsport Clio 172
Ok, I have them installed, not the only one here, I have not given a review because the car has not been fully mapped by Henk.

They went in a fit perfectly, so that is one important thing. No problems there. Second doubt is about the quality of fabircation so first thing to check was hardness, I tested them and the lobes are 55RC so they do suit the job. The other concern related to the quality over all would be durability, but there is only one way to find out at this point. I have had them in for about 300 miles so there is no way to report there. However, I checked and the cam shows not a single mark at this point, which is expected, as some said, if they were made from cheese by now they should be at least color marked. But as said, no way to report on that with only 300 miles

To the way she drives. They give an erratic idle, I am really picky and that was an "issue", henk has sent me a second version of the map and bettered a bit, but by no means will be close to stock. It idles at 1100. There is a video of a 182 with colombo at fire up, well, look it and you will see what is like, as they are same spec and my car does sound the same as the one in that video.

Low down power delivery is... not smooth, the car doesn't like the 1 - 2K range, some will say I am being gay, but when you drive in a 22million city... well, that is where you are 60% of the time, think of drving around London's downtown if not worst. As soon as you pass the 2K mark it is very close to standard, at 2.5K you feel there is more than before and so it keeps to 4K where the engine comes to live and pulls really hard, you really feel the difference. I have race another mate's 172 and I was faster off the line and on the roll test I was also faster, so as long as it is over 2K rpms there is more of all all the time, get caught lower and you fill like driving a 1.2. The car likes pulling all the way to the redline without the vanishing feeling beyond 6.5K and crashes on the limiter with anger.

The other thing I noticed is the tappets are noiser, not in a clunky or metalic tapping way, but sound more like an injector due to the higher lift, or may be they are the inyectors. So the idle is a bit crappy and the delivery very low down is the trade off, but I think they are a "good" compromise for the gains. Next will be how best it gets once the map is complete and how long they last, the stock cams came out unscratched, only visual marks from the journal contact but by touch you can not feel them, only visual. Hope these last as long (70,000), if so, they have been a very nice purchase.

206hp, don't know, I will measure it once it is completely mapped, as referece, mine did 150 to the wheels before cams. Will see how much it does afterwards.
 
Last edited:
  clio 172 phase 2
Ok, I have them installed, not the only one here, I have not given a review because the car has not been fully mapped by Henk.

They went in a fit perfectly, so that is one important thing. No problems there. Second doubt is about the quality of fabircation so first thing to check was hardness, I tested them and the lobes are 55RC so they do suit the job. The other concern related to the quality over all would be durability, but there is only one way to find out at this point. I have had them in for about 300 miles so there is no way to report there. However, I checked and the cam shows not a single mark at this point, which is expected, as some said, if they were made from cheese by now they should be at least color marked. But as said, no way to report on that with only 300 miles

To the way she drives. They give an erratic idle, I am really picky and that was an "issue", henk has sent me a second version of the map and bettered a bit, but by no means will be close to stock. It idles at 1100. There is a video of a 182 with colombo at fire up, well, look it and you will see what is like, as they are same spec and my car does sound the same as the one in that video.

Low down power delivery is... not smooth, the car doesn't like the 1 - 2K range, some will say I am being gay, but when you drive in a 22million city... well, that is where you are 60% of the time, think of drving around London's downtown if not worst. As soon as you pass the 2K mark it is very close to standard, at 2.5K you feel there is more than before and so it keeps to 4K where the engine comes to live and pulls really hard, you really feel the difference. I have race another mate's 172 and I was faster off the line and on the roll test I was also faster, so as long as it is over 2K rpms there is more of all all the time, get caught lower and you fill like driving a 1.2. The car likes pulling all the way to the redline without the vanishing feeling beyond 6.5K and crashes on the limiter with anger.

The other thing I noticed is the tappets are noiser, not in a clunky or metalic tapping way, but sound more like an injector due to the higher lift, or may be they are the inyectors. So the idle is a bit crappy and the delivery very low down is the trade off, but I think they are a "good" compromise for the gains. Next will be how best it gets once the map is complete and how long they last, the stock cams came out unscratched, only visual marks from the journal contact but by touch you can not feel them, only visual. Hope these last as long (70,000), if so, they have been a very nice purchase.

206hp, don't know, I will measure it once it is completely mapped, as referece, mine did 150 to the wheels before cams. Will see how much it does afterwards.


Thanks for the detailed response! Don't forget to keep us all informed with how you get on with them, as i'm sure their are quite a few people who are interested in this. I certainly am!

:)
 
Ok, I have them installed, not the only one here, I have not given a review because the car has not been fully mapped by Henk.

They went in a fit perfectly, so that is one important thing. No problems there. Second doubt is about the quality of fabircation so first thing to check was hardness, I tested them and the lobes are 55RC so they do suit the job. The other concern related to the quality over all would be durability, but there is only one way to find out at this point. I have had them in for about 300 miles so there is no way to report there. However, I checked and the cam shows not a single mark at this point, which is expected, as some said, if they were made from cheese by now they should be at least color marked. But as said, no way to report on that with only 300 miles

To the way she drives. They give an erratic idle, I am really picky and that was an "issue", henk has sent me a second version of the map and bettered a bit, but by no means will be close to stock. It idles at 1100. There is a video of a 182 with colombo at fire up, well, look it and you will see what is like, as they are same spec and my car does sound the same as the one in that video.

Low down power delivery is... not smooth, the car doesn't like the 1 - 2K range, some will say I am being gay, but when you drive in a 22million city... well, that is where you are 60% of the time, think of drving around London's downtown if not worst. As soon as you pass the 2K mark it is very close to standard, at 2.5K you feel there is more than before and so it keeps to 4K where the engine comes to live and pulls really hard, you really feel the difference. I have race another mate's 172 and I was faster off the line and on the roll test I was also faster, so as long as it is over 2K rpms there is more of all all the time, get caught lower and you fill like driving a 1.2. The car likes pulling all the way to the redline without the vanishing feeling beyond 6.5K and crashes on the limiter with anger.

The other thing I noticed is the tappets are noiser, not in a clunky or metalic tapping way, but sound more like an injector due to the higher lift, or may be they are the inyectors. So the idle is a bit crappy and the delivery very low down is the trade off, but I think they are a "good" compromise for the gains. Next will be how best it gets once the map is complete and how long they last, the stock cams came out unscratched, only visual marks from the journal contact but by touch you can not feel them, only visual. Hope these last as long (70,000), if so, they have been a very nice purchase.

206hp, don't know, I will measure it once it is completely mapped, as referece, mine did 150 to the wheels before cams. Will see how much it does afterwards.

how you getting on with these cams ??
 
  Renaultsport Clio 172
how you getting on with these cams ??

So far so good, the car now has 1250 miles with them and not a problem, noice or anything weird stuff. The mapping has taken a bit longer than expected as it is an iterative process as I have to log the car, send those to Henk and then try the new cal and so forth. We are in the version 7 of the mappping but from what I can tell we´ve done a very good progress. The car´s delivery from 2250 on is just as smooth and perfect as stock but much stronger, below there it has some faults as the pull isn´t as perfect but we´ll see how that ends. One thing it hasn´t improved much is the idle, it idles at 1150 - 1200 rpms and is lumpy, more so when cold and it kagaroos some times.

Power wise, they do dive a strong jump over standard, next weekend car will be on the rollers, in stock form and with some mods it did 149 whps.
 
  172 Ph1, 1972 Mini 1
To the way she drives. They give an erratic idle, I am really picky and that was an "issue", henk has sent me a second version of the map and bettered a bit, but by no means will be close to stock. It idles at 1100. There is a video of a 182 with colombo at fire up, well, look it and you will see what is like, as they are same spec and my car does sound the same as the one in that video.

Low down power delivery is... not smooth, the car doesn't like the 1 - 2K range, some will say I am being gay, but when you drive in a 22million city... well, that is where you are 60% of the time, think of drving around London's downtown if not worst. As soon as you pass the 2K mark it is very close to standard, at 2.5K you feel there is more than before and so it keeps to 4K where the engine comes to live and pulls really hard, you really feel the difference. I have race another mate's 172 and I was faster off the line and on the roll test I was also faster, so as long as it is over 2K rpms there is more of all all the time, get caught lower and you fill like driving a 1.2. The car likes pulling all the way to the redline without the vanishing feeling beyond 6.5K and crashes on the limiter with anger.

The other thing I noticed is the tappets are noiser, not in a clunky or metalic tapping way, but sound more like an injector due to the higher lift, or may be they are the inyectors. So the idle is a bit crappy and the delivery very low down is the trade off, but I think they are a "good" compromise for the gains. Next will be how best it gets once the map is complete and how long they last, the stock cams came out unscratched, only visual marks from the journal contact but by touch you can not feel them, only visual. Hope these last as long (70,000), if so, they have been a very nice purchase.

206hp, don't know, I will measure it once it is completely mapped, as referece, mine did 150 to the wheels before cams. Will see how much it does afterwards.

Unfortunately this is the downside of cams, the poor idle is due to the increased duration and overlap, it normally ruins idle and low rev quality as in your case until the inlet air has sufficient speed to charge the cylinder rather than going back out the exhaust port.

I wouldnt have though there is much more to be done to cure the idle through mapping, its more of an airflow issue tbh, an optimised exhaust manifold would have a chance of helping but they probably dont even exist.

206hp would be optimistic but with the other mods mentioned probably isnt that far off. Would expect it to be absolute peak power tho at high revs, normally long duration cams do not give an overall increase but extend the power into the higher rev range.

Quality seems good from your info tho, the hardness is about right for a plain billet cam and should be strong enough.
 
  Renaultsport Clio 172
I gained about 12 bhp.


maupineda_bhp_3.jpg


Bare in mind this measure is at 2400 meters above see level where cars lose around 22% of their power, plus the factors used for dyno correction are unknown, my car did more that all other clios, just one 182 that put 162 in the same roller and day, kind of a freak I guess.

One thing is for sure, my car is faster that any other 172 with known mass mods (remaps, exhausts, etc, etc, etc)

Look at the graph in the high end, power was still building up when the limiter kicked in and torque doesn't as much fall as with the stock's even after 7K, as said, once vvt engages at around 1800 it feels better than it ever did with stocks. Live mapping would be better, but there is no one I can trust this side of the antlantic. And it doesn't look too bad low down, does it?

Special thanks to Henk who mapped the car remotely and did quite a good job.

@Henk, so they have revised the profile? how are the newers, much better? Also, how you found these while mapping compared to all other profiles you have mapped in the past?
 
  RS RIP
^^ your power seems allright, but your torque does'nt really add up to the equation . It's on the low side. Translating it to Newton meters it's 177 or so , but like you said the altitude and heat could be a prob.

My C&B cams have the same profile but it makes 200+NM torque and 174 hp at the wheels, mind you this was a couple of meters BELOW sealevel and mild temperature
 
  172 Ph1, 1972 Mini 1
It is torque that drops off with altitude, at just short of 1% per 100m

Also that power figure is engine power not wheel power but if you factor it for sealevel it equates to approx 203 hp at the fly so a very respectable effort
 
  172 Ph1, 1972 Mini 1
No its at the engine, if you look just beneath the graph theres tabs and the selected tab which is slightly raised above the rest is Torque / Engine Power. Torque / Wheel Power is the next tab and isnt raised.

Like i say adjusted for sealevel (1000mb pressure) its about 203hp so not that bad!
 
  CLIO 182
£750 incl fitting!

Thats a great price, the whole rough idle kind of puts me off slightly though. Be great if it was a track toy though.
 
  172 Ph1, 1972 Mini 1
The camshafts are completely different, the 428's have a duration of 272 deg intake and 256 deg exhaust while the ED cams have 286 deg inlet and 280 deg exhaust. The longer duration keeps the valves open longer allowing more air into the cylinder but consequently requires a higher engine rpm to achieve the correct airspeed to prevent intake loss through the exhaust port during the longer overlap period. This is what causes poor idling and is very difficult to get rid of without changing the duration.
 
ok, thanks mate, so basically the ED cams are better to live with if you also use your car as your daily, with regards to idle and low speed running?
 
  172 Ph1, 1972 Mini 1
No the other way round, the 428's are much more usable but ultimately not as powerful top end. There are comments in this thread about the idle quality of the ED cams.
 
  Clio 172
Cat Cams 422 with or without dephaser the best power band or 423 if you want 5000 rpm's all the way to 8000 rpm's
 


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