Failing to start when hot

[eon172]

Currently at Brands and this pain in the arse of a car (Clio 172 cup) is failing to restart after a run out/when hot. Lights on, relays checked, no starter!! Leave it 5-10mins it 'may' then start without me having done anything. Talk about a mind of its own. Anyone point me to the possible culprit? Ta.

 

[Jamie182turb]

Had the same problem with mine, turned out to be a intermittent injecter fault hope it's not that!! Temp switch maybe?

 

[eon172]

Had the same problem with mine, turned out to be a intermittent injecter fault hope it's not that!! Temp switch maybe?

Thanks for the quick reply.

The car is running great even after 20 mins on track, nothing to make think the fueling is a problem.

Where's the temp switch? My water temp is rock solid at half way.

Thanks

 

[Ol’ Tarby]

Starter motor getting too hot maybe? Iirc they have a heat shield? Yours might be missing

 

[eon172]

Starter motor getting too hot maybe? Iirc they have a heat shield? Yours might be missing

Hhmm, possibly, will have to try and take a look. Thanks

 

[DannyR]

Is it turning over?

 

[eon172]

Is it turning over?

When it fails no. But just removed and cleaned the tdc sensor and on first attempt at a hot start it worked. Let's see if it continues.

Ian

 

[bloke]

tdc sensor won't stop it turning over.

 

[DannyR]

When it fails no. But just removed and cleaned the tdc sensor and on first attempt at a hot start it worked. Let's see if it continues.

Ian

But you have lights on?

If you have lights on, it'll need a new battery. I know, I know it starts when cold but I had a similar problem and new battery cures it, couple of other cases on here too.

If you don't have lights on check your battery earth.

 

[LeeP86]

Had this on my car. it was missing the starter heatsheild. I got one fitted and was fine afterwards

 

[Jamie182turb]

Immboliser ? Check light on dash when you turn the ignition on.

 

[eon172]

tdc sensor won't stop it turning over.

Ah, that's interesting then, cleaning it did reduce the issue through the afternoon, but it did still fail the odd time. I got the idea from http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=946684

But you have lights on?

If you have lights on, it'll need a new battery. I know, I know it starts when cold but I had a similar problem and new battery cures it, couple of other cases on here too.

If you don't have lights on check your battery earth.

Checked the main earth. I did think whether a battery cell had packed up and only shows on cranking, it never dropped below 12.8v. I'm not eliminating this as the cause yet ;-)

Had this on my car. it was missing the starter heatsheild. I got one fitted and was fine afterwards

Once I recognise what I'm looking for I'll get the car up and check. A simple fix I would expect.

Immboliser ? Check light on dash when you turn the ignition on.

Yeah first thing I checked, light does go out.

 

[DannyR]

Did you do a multi meter check and make sure you had continuity between the battery terminal and the engine earth? The terminal clamps can look like they are fine around the battery, but have got dirty and not touching properly.

 

[eon172]

Did you do a multi meter check and make sure you had continuity between the battery terminal and the engine earth? The terminal clamps can look like they are fine around the battery, but have got dirty and not touching properly.

Sorry for the long delay in replying. I'm confident it's OK but I'll check nonetheless this weekend, along with the presence of a starter motor heat shield. Thanks.

 

[eon172]

Starter motor getting too hot maybe? Iirc they have a heat shield? Yours might be missing

Had this on my car. it was missing the starter heatsheild. I got one fitted and was fine afterwards

Been a while since I've had a chance to do anything with car, got 10 mins this afternoon and went looking for a heat shield which, by touch alone, I couldn't spot one. Anyone got a pic of one fitted? ...I really think it's this, all the symptoms point to it. Thanks all.

 

[eon172]

Well I've finally managed to get a hold of a heat shield, and what a b**ch to put on.

Can anyone advise the easiest way to fit it, I'm now guessing it's from below, does the manifold have to come off?

 

[DannyR]

From the side, just clips on

 

[ady347]

its a bad earth mate. That's my 2 cents

 

[eon172]

From the side, just clips on

Its one of those scenarios where you had to walk away and try again tomorrow. Yep it does go from the side behind the manifold, but i still had to loosen off the manifold to get through past the solonoid/starter cabling. Anyway...it's done and its not going anywhere [emoji3]


The reason i dont believe its the gearbox earth is the resistance is good and it only happens when the car is toasty after 20mins around the track. But let's see if it cures it then I'll renew that strap.

Thanks all.

 

[flebay]

relays checked, no starter!!

check the 3 brown or black relays in a row under the bonnet passenger side black cover. one is starter,fuel pump, and low speed fan.

 

[eon172]

check the 3 brown or black relays in a row under the bonnet passenger side black cover. one is starter,fuel pump, and low speed fan.

Thanks mate, will check, but I'm now convinced it's a bad connection on the starter trigger wire that needs replacing. Vibrations are probably affecting it, especially as I run with stiff engine mounts.

 

[flebay]

I thought it was the wire on the starter on mine, cleaned and clamped it with pliers but turned out to be the relay not working from the heat of the engine.

 

[eon172]

I thought it was the wire on the starter on mine, cleaned and clamped it with pliers but turned out to be the relay not working from the heat of the engine.

Good to know though I didn't think enough heat could travel that far to affect them. I will definitely check though thanks. Do all three have to switch on ignition?

 

[flebay]

You have a cup so probably don't have air con so there will be 2 relays on yours as that is what the low speed fan is for.
The fuel pump relay has to be constantly on or switched for the engine to run.
The starter relay needs to be switched for as long as you turn the key in the ignition.

 

[eon172]

You have a cup so probably don't have air con so there will be 2 relays on yours as that is what the low speed fan is for.
The fuel pump relay has to be constantly on or switched for the engine to run.
The starter relay needs to be switched for as long as you turn the key in the ignition.

Cheers, I'll try and reproduce the scenerio at the weekend and test them all. Much easier than replacing that cable [emoji6]

 

[eon172]

Relays seem fine by individually feeling for the switching, maybe I need to be more thorough and check the pin voltages. It's currently in this state while stone cold and with a fully charged battery so it's got to be bad connection in my mind. Going to check starter trigger again, though not the easiest thing to get to.