few problems just had my car itb'd

[Nick r26r]

they didnt ask me what it had done to it when i dropped it of , on a email i sent them prior to taking the car there i told them i wanted to fit all bits to the car i had so it would get the best poss power !!!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nick barnes
> Sent: Wed 13/01/2010 18:55
> To: Sales
> Subject: RE: throttle bodies for clio 172
>
> Hi, would it be possible to book my clio in with you to have the throttle bodies done , if poss can you book it in for late feburary swill have chance to get all the bits fitted to it that i have ??

 

[sideways danny]

I'd edit your mobile numbe rout if i were you Nick

 

[2 live]

and you didnt tell them??


to get the best poss power...id say dismiss pretty much all 'tuners' and do it yerself. then get a decent co. to do the mapping. which kung fu has now done and is reaping the massive benefits.

this is not to say that a few decent co.s wont have done the job properly in the first place. but that most get a bit of a reputation, and live on it for ever and a day.

another reason i wouldnt use the so called experts when tuning my car. i was told by a reputable, supposedly, tuner that he could do this that and the other to my engine. id never pulled one apart then, but when i did, i saw with my own eyes how much shite he was talking.and yes..he knows who he is.

 

[Nick r26r]

but when i spoke to them they sounded like they knew what to do with the car , i would of presumed a companie would of been able to map the car to mods anyway as in where the limits are when mapping , i told them in e mail so i presumed they knew , i also did say it had cams but was told the torque curve looked like it had standard cams in !!! as it was a smooth torque curve all the way through rev range , they have 100k cars in there so must know what they are doing , just not that clued up with clio's , but as said they are trying to sort the car , just annoys me its taking so long,

 

[2 live]

most supposed tuners do mate. but then most come from a sales background and could convince anyone that they know what they are doing.

the guys you really need to take your car to to get work done are the guys that dont advertise, dont have bling looking websites claiming they can give you the earth etc.


word of mouth is how the decent tuners get their work. or by proven results on the race tracks over the world.

 

[Fred@BTM]

value of vehicles you work on doesn't mean sod all, a car is a car regardless if its a lambo or a fiesta, i treat all cars the same, smack em with a large hammer and keep my fingers crossed

 

[Nick r26r]

seemed like a good price at the time, but has ended up being the worst £2100 i have ever spent , we will have to see what the outcome is when i get the car back , you never know they might get it running spot on !!!

 

[2 live]

suck squeeze bang blow.......whether it be a 1000cc old school mini, or a veyron......thats how an engine works.

cost of cars in the workshop means nothing. you either know what your doing or you dont.


fools part with money quite easily. rich fools even easier.

 

[Fred@BTM]

christ yeah, one bloke bought an R26R and then gave it to a "tuner" (that no one has or had heard of) and spent £30K (yes thirty thousand english pounds) moddifying it!


it made less power than a standard car

 

[2 live]

lmao........point proved right there i think.^^^^

 

[stan*]

Confirm basics:

-leakdown test
-confirm lift@tdc (don't assume it's correct for the cams just cos the Renault timing markers have been verified--cams could be fitted wrong way round---it happens)?
-base ignition angle correct?
-fuel pressure correct?
-ecu/injectors/coil functioning correct

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

my ears are burning... lol

TBH, get your money back, get the cam timing re-checked again and take it elsewhere in my opinion. Lets be real, it should not take this long regardless of problems and you are not paying them to learn about Clios.

 

[stu-172]

empty your pm's 9lives!

Says he that doesn't do pm's! Haha! :rasp:

 

[stu-172]

my ears are burning... lol

TBH, get your money back, get the cam timing re-checked again and take it elsewhere in my opinion. Lets be real, it should not take this long regardless of problems and you are not paying them to learn about Clios.

He's not paying them to fix it. Matt said he was fixing it FOC. Danny, how bad was the timing out? Could this not damage valves etc?

 

[Tom@JMS]

you are not paying them to learn about Clios.

I'd have to agree with that.

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

He's not paying them to fix it. Matt said he was fixing it FOC. Danny, how bad was the timing out? Could this not damage valves etc?

I know he's not, but imo the car should have been checked over first, before and after RR instead of taking the poor lads cash first and modding what seems to be a poorly Clio.

 

[Russ_16v]

I know he's not, but imo the car should have been checked over first, before and after RR instead of taking the poor lads cash first and modding what seems to be a poorly Clio.

But how far do you go mate?

I mean he wanted itb's fitting, should a car have its timing checked, leak down test etc before any work is carried out?


He informed them of the spec, as far as he was aware the car was running well, it came in low on power and now they are trying to fix the problem FOC, i know it has taken a little while which is a bit of a pain, but as far as i can see its just an unfortunate situation, with no one person to blame

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

But how far do you go mate?

I mean he wanted itb's fitting, should a car have its timing checked, leak down test etc before any work is carried out?


He informed them of the spec, as far as he was aware the car was running well, it came in low on power and now they are trying to fix the problem FOC, i know it has taken a little while which is a bit of a pain, but as far as i can see its just an unfortunate situation, with no one person to blame

If an RR was carried out before the work started then it would have been noticed that their was a problem. These tuning companies are quick to take the money so fixing it FOC is what they should be doing. This situation would have been prevented if a simple befor RR was undertaken (which for £2100 it should have been).

 

[stu-172]

Hi chaps,

Im matt from M-Tech and evening all etc anyway onto business.

Firstly, the car made 155bhp when it arrived.. low perhaps?

Thanks,
Matt

If an RR was carried out before the work started then it would have been noticed that their was a problem. These tuning companies are quick to take the money so fixing it FOC is what they should be doing. This situation would have been prevented if a simple befor RR was undertaken (which for £2100 it should have been).

It would appear this was done. 155 bhp is a bit low, but not totally unacceptable?! The guys timing was off, should a tuner re-time every single car prior to mapping or fitting bodies? The car made a gain with the conversion, but wasn't running right. This was due to timing not being right, nothing to do with the tuner.

The guy is now trying to sort the car out FOC. many tuners would have told you were to go as the car wasn't running properly before!

 

[Fred@BTM]

i think the point people are trying to make is alarm bells should've rang when it did 155 prior to any work starting, but then if you didn't know about these french tin cans then its granted that you're not to know

145@wheels is about the norm for a stock car

 

[Bazzon]

It would appear this was done. 155 bhp is a bit low, but not totally unacceptable?! The guys timing was off, should a tuner re-time every single car prior to mapping or fitting bodies? The car made a gain with the conversion, but wasn't running right. This was due to timing not being right, nothing to do with the tuner.

The guy is now trying to sort the car out FOC. many tuners would have told you were to go as the car wasn't running properly before!

Its very low considering he had Cams fitted.

IMO, this car was ill before it went in to get the ITBs done. the car was taken to what seems a very good company BUT who have no/little experience of the F4R engine.
Therefore the problems were never noticed.

The question is would Ktec have noticed this car was ill? i think they would have and been able to advise/fix it before fitting the ITBs.

I think that they are trying there best to fix the problems but are totally miffed by what is wrong. I also think that Nicks indecision (on timings) and choice to sell the car now has not helped the problem.

 

[Russ_16v]

If an RR was carried out before the work started then it would have been noticed that their was a problem. These tuning companies are quick to take the money so fixing it FOC is what they should be doing. This situation would have been prevented if a simple befor RR was undertaken (which for £2100 it should have been).

Pop back and have a re-read matey, it was RR'd to begin with.

Yes it came out a little low, but as stated by Matt, it all 'looked' ok, just low on power, so it was put down to it being a poor one.

We would know that that is a low figure and maybe have looked into it further, but anyone without RS experience wouldnt give it a second thought, Matt did what he was supposed to do, had it onthe rollers and to him everything looked ok, just low on power.

I can understand what your saying, im not saying your wrong by any means, i just think there isnt any one particular thing to point the finger at

It would appear this was done. 155 bhp is a bit low, but not totally unacceptable?! The guys timing was off, should a tuner re-time every single car prior to mapping or fitting bodies? The car made a gain with the conversion, but wasn't running right. This was due to timing not being right, nothing to do with the tuner.

The guy is now trying to sort the car out FOC. many tuners would have told you were to go as the car wasn't running properly before!

This ^^



Also, was the car mapped to the cams before it went in?

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

see where you are coming from Russ, just not really convinced still. 155bhp with cams on a '172' should have had alarm bells going imo. I suppose at least they are trying to fix it, but if it was me I'd not be happy. Have all the sensors been checked and other tests to check the engine been made, as surely it doesn't take this long to diagnosse?

 

[paulharrison123]

A car with a fair few mods coming in with 155bhp after cams is acceptable? Without cams the 172 standard tend to make this? Im a novice but wouldnt that ring a bell - I mean theres even a clue in the standard name - 172

 

[Russ_16v]

see where you are coming from Russ, just not really convinced still. 155bhp with cams on a '172' should have had alarm bells going imo. I suppose at least they are trying to fix it, but if it was me I'd not be happy. Have all the sensors been checked and other tests to check the engine been made, as surely it doesn't take this long to diagnosse?

If it went in with cams, un mapped then 155 could be possible i suppose matey, but again Matt has said he isnt very clued up with the F4R, though i agree saying the basics dont take very long to check.

Of course, there are variances with rolling roads as we know, so 155 on one can be 175 on another, its a bit of a pickle this!

 

[Adey.]

As far as I know nick payed for the cams to be retimed so the tuner didn't do that fix

 

[Sir_Dave]

Personally i think that the OP should pick up the phone to the 'tuner' and have a proper adult conversation about the issue, instead of spouting on a forum about when he wants it back.

Clearly the car was ill to begin with. From what i understand the 'tuning company' then extracted a suitable amount of additional power from it. Albeit this was somewhat lower than you would normally expect from a '172' with that spec.

I would imagine that from a legal perspective they have actually completed the work that they set out to do, ie fit & map throttle bodies. Yes, the car wasnt really running right to begin with, but that isnt really their problem - from what i gather they werent instructed to sort out any initial running problems, known or not.

The fact that they are now working, essentially for free, to get to the route of said problem is imho very commendable. They are essentially fixing other people's errors, for free. In addition to the original work that they were specified to do.

Whilst they are essentially 'learning about the F4R as they go along', again, this isnt really their fault, it is purely the choice of the OP as to who he specified to the job. If he had done additional research into their Renault experience, or indeed not gone for the cheaper/less experienced option, he may not be in this situation.

Comparably, he may still be in this situation having used someone else, but not be getting the additional support that this company is clearly offering ...

 

[PaulyA610]

There is more to this than it just got 155 bhp, the RR graph was all over the place when we had a look at it!! Also they started working on the car first, then when nick asked have you done the RR test before you start (He asked them a few times for the results) they said they will have to put the car back together! Then the following day he was told the results according to nick.
As adey say's nick has paid to get the cam timing sorted by danny so it is not all being done FOC (which is fair). I cant see it being sorted any time soon though it really needs to go to someone who knows Renaults, with all their best intensions I just cant see them getting to the bottom of this problem. I hope they prove me wrong though!!

 

[PaulyA610]

Sir Dave You are right in most of what you say bud, but when he got it back I cant see where the 182 bhp figure came from it was guttless and couldnt keep up with a stock 172 cup!!! But more importantly it was overfuleing I had to drive it home and thought i was going to pass out with fuel fumes!! it also had no bottom end power! I am not saying it is all their fault at all but you cant send a car out running like that really and from what nick says thay havent been working on it only danny has done the timing which nick paide for!!

 

[saltyhair81]

some ppl will believe anything. and no disrespect to the OP. but most ppl will believe what a tuner tells them if they arent clued up in that respect. yes he may of thought it was running fine, which doesnt mean it was.

the no. of times iv repaired cars that have come from a 'tuners' is unreal tbh.

but then....cant really say the 'tuners' of the cars that have been sorted by me are actually tuners, cowboys springs to mind better.

agree, you're happy with aids until you know you've got it to be frank

 

[Greeny.]

Not being funny but surely if your car was only making 155bhp with cams why you fit ITB's to try and 'fix it' rather than sorting out the original issue first!?

 

[Nick r26r]

Not being funny but surely if your car was only making 155bhp with cams why you fit ITB's to try and 'fix it' rather than sorting out the original issue first!?

read the thread properly , the car was running 155bhp but i was told that is what they expect to see from a 172 plus i thought this is what ph2 172's usually get , ph1's seem to get more power and also have longer gear ratio's so i thought 155bhp was ok , put the cams aside as the car was not mapped for any of these mods so would only be putting out standard power , 428's arent aggressive cams so you wont see much of a gain from them , they had done 2 clio's before mine and said they get this power anyway , i have just spent £2100 having jenveys fitted so why would i even try to skimp out of getting the car fixed if i thought it had problem's :S , i wouldnt !!! from a tuners point of view they are meant to have the knowledge of engine tuning , hence why i took it to a reptubale companie who specialise in fitting throttle bodies !!!

 

[Nick r26r]

Its very low considering he had Cams fitted.

IMO, this car was ill before it went in to get the ITBs done. the car was taken to what seems a very good company BUT who have no/little experience of the F4R engine.
Therefore the problems were never noticed.

The question is would Ktec have noticed this car was ill? i think they would have and been able to advise/fix it before fitting the ITBs.

I think that they are trying there best to fix the problems but are totally miffed by what is wrong. I also think that Nicks indecision (on timings) and choice to sell the car now has not helped the problem.

i just want the car to get looked at bazzon and get sorted as it isnt , as you of all people hate waiting for things to be done as well going by previous threads of yours , hence your engine taking months to get built !! vice versa , they have had the car nearly 3 months now and it keeps getting left and just sitting there , throttle bodies can be done in a day ,

 

[mark smith87]

If any of you want a decent remapping done get in touch with a very good mate of mine. He doesnt remap standard ECU's but will map pretty well most aftermarket ones.
Steve Greenald, Race Engine Calibration. 07774773824. email greenald@aol.com
He's based at Rainham near Dartford. He has partnership in a rolling road and also runs 2 dyno cells on site. He is very knowledgeable and knows a lot of people in the Motorsport Business. He does a lot of work on mapping for Mark Fish as well as many other big names. He'll advise on set ups and the best way to go.

 

[Fred@BTM]

i normally see hig 180's/low 190's with 428's on the clios i do (so 155-160ish @ wheels)

 

[Bazzon]

i just want the car to get looked at bazzon and get sorted as it isnt , as you of all people hate waiting for things to be done as well going by previous threads of yours , hence your engine taking months to get built !! vice versa , they have had the car nearly 3 months now and it keeps getting left and just sitting there , throttle bodies can be done in a day ,

Or a evening

The timing thing wasnt a attack at you, it was more in this thread some post appear a bit Jeckll and hyde (we dont fully know whats going on directly) in terms as some you appear fine with waiting then others you seem to want it back.

I d want it back in the same way we want our engine back but due to the cost it has to be correct and we wouldnt accept it if it wasnt. We know what is going on with our engine and we know the problems and the personal things Craig has had on but it will get finished and it will be correct.

Just hope your car gets sorted but like craig said earlier in the thread if they are going to fix it all the basic checks need to be done before they will find out the problem.
But it does seem really odd that you have lost power now the cams have been timed correctly.

 

[stu-172]

read the thread properly , the car was running 155bhp but i was told that is what they expect to see from a 172 plus i thought this is what ph2 172's usually get , ph1's seem to get more power and also have longer gear ratio's so i thought 155bhp was ok , put the cams aside as the car was not mapped for any of these mods so would only be putting out standard power , 428's arent aggressive cams so you wont see much of a gain from them , they had done 2 clio's before mine and said they get this power anyway , i have just spent £2100 having jenveys fitted so why would i even try to skimp out of getting the car fixed if i thought it had problem's :S , i wouldnt !!! from a tuners point of view they are meant to have the knowledge of engine tuning , hence why i took it to a reptubale companie who specialise in fitting throttle bodies !!!

How the f**k has a gear ratio got anything to do with the power at the fly? Or was the 155 at the wheels?

 

[Nick r26r]

just sating that the ph1 172's appear to get more power then most ph2 172's , all the ph1 172 i have drove feel a lot quicker than the ph2 172's i have drove , so i thought 155bhp was what i would of expected to see , and as they tuned 2 172's before and they got similar sort of power !!

 

[sideways danny]

As adey say's nick has paid to get the cam timing sorted by danny

interesting

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

pmsl...oh dear