Few vids of car

[MarkM]

LOL....

My main reason is that it sounds like a bag of nails and the acceleration vid it also sounds rough.

I remember your car stalling all the time, im sure its fixed but seem that your cars are the development cars and experience mapping or using OMEX is limited......or you wouldn't be having these issues. Its all the part throttle mapping that make a good car an excellent car to drive.

There are car with no cams and SMT that have similar power....and i bet the Mpg is very poor (even taking into account the cams).....

Everyones learning, im just glad i wasnt the first car and waited 12months for it to be going.....

My car has never stalled? Have had some issues granted but very minor ones.

There are no cars without cams running 205bhp let alone 217bhp, lol.

The use of an OMEX is not just for power but allows the use of cable throttle body for better throttle response. It is also future proofing if I want to upgrade to full TB's. Ross' car would not idle at all if useing an SMT.

I waited about 2 weeks for mine. If you are referring to Ross' why do you assume he had to wait due to OMEX issues?

Mine and I am sure Ross' (although I have never heard it) sounds amazing on full throttle

Not sure how many OMEXs Andy has done but it is more then just mine and Ross'.

You appear to be making quite mis-informed comments. Why?

Heres a vid of mine it has better sound quality, I think it sounds sweet.
http://media.putfile.com/Movie19829

 

[miketheman2k]

Ross, I got an external microphone we can hook-up to my laptop to get decent recordings. Watch this space! But you gotta play it back on a hifi with a good sub to get the full effect!

 

[Mattieuk]

Feck I bet your neighbours love you

 

[Ant1]

By the way i think it sounds awesome.

 

[MarkM]

Omex

For me throttlebodies seems to be the best and most simple mod for 200+bhp. Will give better throttle response, std idle (not lumpy) and better mpg aswell.

Hey im not against your mods, infact your cars really nice. Personally wouldnt want all the sideffects they bring...

Each to there own mate.

I am surprised you stated you thought the car was mapped poorly.

Andy (GDI) is a top bloke who produces some s**t hot Renault tuning packages (not many people do). If you want throttle bodies Andy will do it, if you want an SMT Andy will do it. The customer gets what they want and what they pay for. I love the rough round the edges feel of my car it reminds me of my old 205gti and it goes extremely well.

Just hopeing you realise that picking fault with Ross' car is picking fault with GDI. You cant tell if its mapped badly from the videos (as you know if you know anything about cars). I have been out in the car with Andy when mapping and he spends as much time mapping part throttle sites as he does full throttle.

Why not go and pay Andy and Ben a visit, they always have a nice selection of cars to have a look at, I am sure you will have a better chat face to face - non of this forum bullshit.

 

[Ali]

Far too loud!!! I couldn't drive that!

 

[M.C..]

sounds good as a fun/weekend/track car but i could'nt drive it everyday
and with the flame only coming out of one pipe to me means (and i have no experiance of exhaust design) that the gasses are not flowing evenly, as every performance car i have seen with twin boxes when they flame it comes out of the 2 pipes at the same time.
would'nt you be better getting a exhaust that has been tested like the orbisound and you may even get a couple more bhp?

 

[Fred@BTM]

you do realise the car is running 217 brake ?!?!

210 infact, as that rolling road over reads by 7bhp

 

[Thomss]

Sounds mad dude

 

[seb]

right, i have had complaints about all the spamming by evogone and thejesus.

Lets keep it on topic, ie the car in question!!

evogone/thejesus - i am going to be opening up a new section to the forum especially for you guys so you can argue about strut braces, your mothers, your sisters and even your cams...

and the person who complained about the spam wasn't anyone invovled in this thread.

 

[EVOgone]

There are no cars without cams running 205bhp let alone 217bhp, lol.

You appear to be making quite mis-informed comments. Why?
QUOTE]

Standard engine with std cams runs well over 205bhp with throttlbodies, so yes it can be done and has been proven.

My comments are not mis-informed as GDI has said there are various places on the map which are rich and to make it 100% then more mapping (on road) is needed. Page 1 of the thread.

My point which is very valid is that going throttlebodies on a std engine gives the same performance(maybe a bit more vs cost of the above set-up. Plus if you want more power - cams / headwork then it can be done without making more bits redundant. Idle, MPG, drivability and hp potential are far superior than using single throttlebody.

Im made up people are tuning these cars more and more. When i first had my evo 4/5 years ago 360bhp took some ££ now a re-map/ECU (after lots of developemnt) for the latest std EVO take BHP to 380+.

 

[Andy GDI]

My comments are not mis-informed as GDI has said there are various places on the map which are rich and to make it 100% then more mapping (on road) is needed. Page 1 of the thread.

.

on marks car yes, as we had some problems on the rollers so finished the finer points on the road for mark.

 

[EVOgone]

on marks car yes, as we had some problems on the rollers so finished the finer points on the road for mark.

I think we are all on the same page now......Everyone welcomes development and accepts the highs and lows that come with it....

 

[MarkM]

Just to hopefully clarify a few points.

*both myself and Ross can easily go to TBs in the future if we want as we already have an OMEX.

*Installing cams, manifold match, and an OMEX is a good base tuning package IMO. Ross also has had headwork and a stage 2 inlet manifold also valid modifcations.

*I could not have had TB's fitted for the cost of my conversion.

*The only evidence of someone useing a standard engine with TBs is Roamer who has 212bhp. IMO unless there were more cars with this mod producing that figure I am not that sure I personally believe it. Note that Luckys car which also has a 182 manifold and cams runs 222bhp. I do not know enough about Roamers car but the bhp figure seems high, what torque did his car make?

*I did ask Andy about TB's but due to cost and the cutting of bodywork I decided against it. I was also told that Ben would be developeing a new inlet manifold which would be more cost effective anyway and it would be worth holding out for that.

*At the end of the day my car is not finished there will be more to come...

*Your comments about the car being in developement are valid I am not sure if you have gone about voiceing your opinions on certain things fairly.

I await another over bearing reply detailing how you were right and everyone else is wrong. sigh

 

[Fred@BTM]

The only evidence of someone useing a standard engine with TBs is Roamer who has 212bhp. IMO unless there were more cars with this mod producing that figure I am not that sure I personally believe it. Note that Luckys car which also has a 182 manifold and cams runs 222bhp. I do not know enough about Roamers car but the bhp figure seems high, what torque did his car make?

uh huh, Roamer was the "ORIGINAL PIONEER" of serious engine tunning of the F4R engine in the UK

he did what i ALWAYS bang on about, had his car originally RR'd @ Power Engineering in Uxbridge at 171bhp @ fly

he then had it RR'd after the TB's and made 212bhp (170lbs/ft IIRC)

NOW whether or not it had 212bhp is a big can of worms, but he had a gain over standard done on the same RR before and after

did Roamers car REALLY have 212bhp??
does Ross's car REALLY have 217bhp??
does Lucky's car REALLY have 222bhp??
does Mark M's car REALLY have 205 bhp??
does Ant's car REALLY have 212bhp???
does K-tec REALLY have 270oddbhp???
does BB REALLY have 270oddbhp???

what i'm getting at is, f**k the figures, thats just pub talk, as long as its quick who the hell cares

But yeah, ROAMER was the first person to take a 172 over 200bhp, and the ONLY person to do so on a COMPLETLEY standard engine

everything else since is a development, GDI or AWT were i think (not including LAD LOL) were the first to get 200bhp without using ITB's

 

[MarkM]

Fred I was just trying to highlight that as you say bhp figures and RR's are not the most reliable of devices and it is easier to see a pattern in power outputs if lots of people have similar sets of mods.

I do not know much about Roamers car but putting it in perspective does that mean if I TB'd my 182 I could expect 221bhp? as Roamer managed to achieve a 31bhp increase on his original RR figure. It seems a bit steep if he didnt have cams, but hey what do I know?

 

[Fred@BTM]

212 - 171 = 41bhp gain infact

i make that about a 24% gain? you agree or am i being dumb???

the "great man himself" BenR, even said "it'll make 210 i reckon"

 

[y0z2a]

I think the one thing to remember is that we are the only people to have dyno'd an engine and then put it on the rollers that all these other cars were put on.

the CALCULATED rolling road figure was 7 BHP higher than the 225 BHP that was achieved in the dyno cell. All of these figures are calculated.

We now have a proper race engine builder building the 225 BHP / 175 Ft/lb (Engine dyno tested) engine this time to see if there is any difference in power etc. it will be mapped and everything else based on the original map that was done by MASS, and then tweaked / adjusted to suit the changes that we have made.

Ross is normally the only person to dispute the figures of everyones car, but forgets that most of the other cars he is comparing it too were all measured on the same rolling road...

I know, Fred knows and Andy GDI knows that our blue cup when the engine was run in and dyno'd went on the rollers a week later and the mapping was tweaked. We all know that the car didn't pick up 7bhp from when it was dyno'd... it is just a calculated figure based on MASS's experience from dynoing engines and then putting them on the rollers.

225 BHP -> 232 BHP is only a 2./3.2% difference between the ACTUAL dyno figure and the CALCULATED figure.

We are going to take the blue one down to Power Engineering to see what it runs on their rollers - just so that we can say to ourselves that we can calculate it from their figures, and from the figures that we know.

I know for sure that I can go to a rolling road somewhere and fudge the figures.

But... some things to consider:

when the blue one was RR'd at 232 BHP it was running on 15 inch dynamiques at standard road pressures that I normally run. no increasing the pressures etc.

Mark< - what do you know? apart from what you are told?

Roamers Car I think was quite faesible to have 210+ BHP

Ross's Car - again like roamers quite faesible now. I don't think it had as much power as he claimed before the lastest 12 month magic dust session

Luckys - I can believe it has the power if it was mapped well.

BB's - They have proven it has a chunk of power by turning up at other rolling road days and showing the increase over standard.

Ktec - as above.

I don't see where this argument is really going, but - cost effectiveness wise, Throttle Bodies are the cheapest Power/Pound conversion - No question.

Mark - in regard to cutting panels etc. the slam panel is a £15 panel that bolts on and off. Cost wise - £3500-£4000 you can have throttle bodies on your car and have towards 210 BHP. FACT

/y0z

 

[Fred@BTM]

i'm actually enjoying this thread as a "read"

reminds me of the old days .......

 

[MarkM]

212 - 171 = 41bhp gain infact

i make that about a 24% gain? you agree or am i being dumb???

the "great man himself" BenR, even said "it'll make 210 i reckon"

Yes your right - I'm dumb lol.

Yozza - No doubt an interesting debate between what mods are best - give biggest gains etc , etc. TB's may go on my car yet depending out what Bens new intake is like.

I am off to Northampton Motorsport to get my suspension setup tommorrow maybe I will get them to run it on there rr for a power figure.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Mark, i've negotiated a 10% discount with them BTW!!!!!

 

[TheJesus]

pah, K&N filter will take you over 200bhp anyway, open IK's are the future...

 

[Andy GDI]

its never as simple as people think.... there are many things to take into consideration....

there is never a black and white answer to peoples requirments, its also not just about BHP, thats such a 2d ways to look at things.... it sells...... but its not the best solution all the time...

but what do I know....

 

[Gary G]

Discussion's regarding figures really do bore me, in fact I hardly bothered reading some of the comments....i'm more interested in how the car actually goes!

...Lets take it from the forum/pub to the track! Cliosport Santa Pod shoot out day or something

PS. Anyone actually talked about cars whilst down the pub? Most of my mates would fall asleep if I started yapping about 200bhp+ ITB'd clios lol

 

[TheJesus]

would be nice if we could take Seb's modded car list, get ALL those car's and organise a day out to an airfield/track/1/4 mile and do some comparisons, get a mag there... can't dispute owt then.

 

[Fred@BTM]

see you all on track gayboys!!

 

[Gary G]

Hahaha

 

[EVOgone]

Discussion's regarding figures really do bore me, in fact I hardly bothered reading some of the comments....i'm more interested in how the car actually goes!

...Lets take it from the forum/pub to the track! Cliosport Santa Pod shoot out day or something

PS. Anyone actually talked about cars whilst down the pub? Most of my mates would fall asleep if I started yapping about 200bhp+ ITB'd clios lol

Totally agree about its the way it drives. An engine with independant TB's does and will always have a benifit in term of BHP/Drivability/Idle/upgrading etc over single TB...

Anyways the track / shoot out sounds great..!

Day 1 RR session - same cars same day same RR
Day 2 Time Attack - 1/4mile and track timing

Bring it on......

 

[Martin]

MK1 vs Mk2 day 29th Jan@POD is open to all 200+bhp mk2s to settle there squabbles and see if they can get into the 14s

 

[Andy GDI]

Totally agree about its the way it drives. An engine with independant TB's does and will always have a benifit in term of BHP/Drivability/Idle/upgrading etc over single TB...

Anyways the track / shoot out sounds great..!

Day 1 RR session - same cars same day same RR
Day 2 Time Attack - 1/4mile and track timing

Bring it on......

you know that sounds like a laugh.... trouble is everyone would be standing by their cars learing at each other.... LOL!

seriously.... its all about the way it puts the power down... and a car with 20bhp less can feel and be faster on the track / road...

but is this not supposed to be for fun.... you know... modding cars....

Andy

 

[Andy GDI]

my car would not get into the 14's with all its lard arse weight....

 

[EVOgone]

you know that sounds like a laugh.... trouble is everyone would be standing by their cars learing at each other.... LOL!

seriously.... its all about the way it puts the power down... and a car with 20bhp less can feel and be faster on the track / road...

but is this not supposed to be for fun.... you know... modding cars....

Andy

Thats why my cups engine is std but the driver isnt....

Im sure it would be a great spectical, i am happy to be the control time car/driver.....

 

[Andy GDI]

i have had a few nasty experiences with people over doing it on track in mine..

 

[EVOgone]

or maybe just a massive head ?

LOL - Was a GDI big valve, port and polished head to be precise.........But the mapping is spot on.........

Dont bite - only joking.

 

[miketheman2k]

Mark, i've negotiated a 10% discount with them BTW!!!!!

Finally someone's let us know after having the threads deleted and no response!!

Do we just quote Cliosport Fred?

 

[Martin]

As said above, did i say i was or wanted to drive anyone elses car. Why am i blowing my trumpet ? I would be a control car so to understand std vs these modded monsters..! Bet i win best mpg and best idle...LOL

If fact i have never driven anyone else car round a track other than my own....Just me but would do anything im not prepared to do myself i.e. let someone else drive my car...

Stop spammin..

Don't get your knicker in a twist here pal...the way you worded it made it look like you were offerering to drive all the cars to make it a 'fair' test you could'nt have a fair test of the cars if each car is driven round a track by their owners with different levels of driving skill/experience!

 

[Fred@BTM]

Finally someone's let us know after having the threads deleted and no response!!

Do we just quote Cliosport Fred?

as the membership cards aren't in existence, just mention Fred from cliosport, and you'll get the discount

any problems then ring me 07769712624

but Northampton Motorsport are fully aware of the club etc etc

 

[EVOgone]

Don't get your knicker in a twist here pal...the way you worded it made it look like you were offerering to drive all the cars to make it a 'fair' test you could'nt have a fair test of the cars if each car is driven round a track by their owners with different levels of driving skill/experience!

Dont wear knickers.....do you ?

RR results and qtr mile wont make any real difference.....even better if you did a rolling start 30 to 130 etc..

Evo record is 7.8secs..

For ref -

911 GT3 was 15.7
360 was 16.1
Honda Accord Type R 40secs.....

 

[EVOgone]

Mr Hughes, you dont do yourself any favours resorting to name calling based on hatred. At least when I call you a reseller boy it is justified.

The reason I question your figures is because I have reason to. I spoke to the guy that dyno'd your car and you want to know what he said ..."It made an honest 215 brake"

Also, would you like to explain to everyone how if your car made 170wt (the same as mine) how you ended up with an ATF figure of 229 yet mine ended up with 217 (using mass' 28% losses).

You're probably not clever enough to work that one out so I will let you know.....

Your figures are bullsh*t.


And yes, Gary is a great guy. That's why he has the sense to ignore your brainwashing. I just hope Fred wises up soon.

Im sure the truth will come out when the engine gets built properly as there seamed to be issues as it didnt last as long as it should...

Then lets all have a CS tuner/owner RR and performance day as discussed.. It would probable be the best attended event of the year. PLEASE CS TEAM GET IT SORTED with mag features etc. This is what we all want to see..!

Also small thanks to the Mods..good job with the tidy up..

 

[Dash]

Erm I have been going through this thread. It would seem your car managed all that power and is probably the fastest car on CS without throttle bodies?

That is totally awesome !!

Did GDI and AWT do all this for you rmccardal?

Pure genius I reckon these guys are. Was reading through the "forum users modified clios" thread and it seems GDI and AWT have made almost everyones dreams become a reality.

Well done GDI and AWT once again.

I bet you are well pleased with your car rmccardal.