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Got my first NIP today





Apparently I was caught doing 43 in a 30 (3 minutes after I left work, so it has to be me).. looks like Im looking at a 60 quid fine and 3 points!! ouch!:mad:

They say in the letter that it is not Force policy (Warwickshire Police) to provide photographic evidence.. should I still ask for this?

One unhappy Clare.
 


You should ask for proof yes, or anyone could swindle you!

Imagine if it was the same in the courts:

"You are charged with the mass murder of 3000 people in Brighton, its not our policy to provide any evidence to the fact, so we will just charge you now...is that ok?"



Paul
 


Ok cheers, I was going to anyway I think, although theres no phone number... so I guess I should write and ask..
 


Sniff..........I got busted dropping it to 2nd and flooring it to get past a tour bus that had held me up for a-g-e-s. Empty road, nobody around and I got "lasered" doing 57 in a 30. Let me off with 3 pts & £60 cause I had a clean record, just put a years tax on the car the day before and had a copy of insurance in the car. Altogether a good citizen.........well, apart from when my car forces me to break the law :(

PS - He lasered me from the end of the stretch of road (300-400 metres I think) and he was hiding behind a tree when he did it. Did I hear that they are not allowed to do that any more? Dont they have to be visible, perhaps stand right in the middle of the road or something hehe?

Good luck questioning it, Clare - limits are there for a reason, but sometimes it gets silly.
 


Yeah - my road tax is due at the end of the month, and its nearing Xmas, and my service is getting ever closer!! argh - skint season I think
 


Also has the NIP been served within 14 days of the alleged speeding offence? Check the date on the NIP with date they claim they caught you.

Absolutely if it went to court then they would have to provide conclusive evidence so you want to check that they actually have it. If you were caught by a mobile camera unit then my understanding is you can go to their base and check out the evidence.
 


It was served within 14 days.

I dont think i can really contest it anyway. I know theyve been cracking down on speeding in town for the last month or so.. and thats a notorious road that I was caught on.. where it goes from a 60 to a 30.

Oh well. Ill know better in future.
 
  Honda Civic Type R GT


Unlucky Clare, I found this on one of the better websites. Dunno if itll help, Nick Read might be able to offer advice.

Regards,

Tommy



Human Rights Issue.




Questions should be directed to a solicitor not the author of the UK SpeedTrap Guide, it is very important you think about what you are going to do first. Contact my free legal team on the site.
Maybe it would be better to take the punishment and learn a lesson, on the other hand
Good Luck......
The UK Speedtrap Guide runs the forum UK Traffic Law and two very good comments have appeared in this forum regarding fighting a speeding ticket. You may want to try one of the following. However as we say above speak to a solicitor as well regarding any of your actions.

This correspondence is published as an advisory document only The UK Speedtrap Guide will not accept any liability for any action or subsequent consequences taken by any person as a result of acting upon this advice.

----------




The following is from Adrian Shurmer of "Driver Awareness Ltd"

Adrian suggests that a fixed penalty speeding ticket amounts to "demanding money with menaces".

Thousands of people have recently been issued a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) for an alleged minor speeding offence.

Where the NIP states that the speed limit was allegedly exceeded, the following advice is given as a procedure to adopt.

Procedure

Company Owned Vehicle

· Company receives a demand for information on the driver of a vehicle at a time, date and place as stated on the form.

At this stage the form asks for details of the driver of the vehicle.
This form must be completed by the company, not the driver, and returned to the sender.

All Vehicles

· Driver receives Notice of Intended Prosecution.

The driver must complete all relevant sections on the form and return it to the sender.

· The driver may later receive a fixed penalty ticket accompanied by a Conditional Offer to pay a fixed penalty fine and/or attend a Speed Awareness Course in place of penalty points.

The driver writes a letter to the authority requesting evidence concerning the alleged offence, e.g. copy photograph, certificate of compliance for the camera (if appropriate) and a copy of the Police Officers statement - as required for lawful and necessary corroboration
- if a mobile camera is involved.

· The driver may then receive a letter stating that the request is denied - stating words to the effect that photographic evidence can only be seen when a decision is made to prosecute and summons the driver to appear before a Court. This letter should also detail a denial for the other items of evidence, but often fails to mention them.


It is only at this stage that the alleged driver should consider sending to the authority, the letter as shown below.

· It is advisable that all correspondence be delivered via Recorded Delivery.


Dear Sirs,

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated……….in which you allege that I have committed a speeding offence. That letter does not provide, or offer to provide, any evidence that I have indeed committed such an offence.

I regard your allegation with the utmost concern as I am being asked to make a very important decision which could very seriously affect my future quality of life.

I shall be grateful therefore if you will advise me where, in law, does it state or allow for evidence against a suspect to be deliberately withheld following, or during, the process of an official demand for the payment of money (in this case a £60.00 fixed penalty (or) £95.00 for a Speed Awareness Course.

Further, whereby failure to pay that money on demand will expose the person suspected of that offence to a possible fine of up to £1000.00 (plus costs) at a Magistrates Court, an amount that is in excess of 16 times (or 11 times) (respectively) the amount of money previously demanded.

This, in my view, could potentially be a criminal offence in itself, the offence of demanding money with menaces. It is also arguably a breach of my human rights in that I am being subjected to unreasonable and possibly unlawful pressure by being placed into a pay us now and save yourself harassment later position.

I am entitled, in law, to all and any evidence that I have committed the offence complained of before I pay any money to you - not just at Court, but as soon as you issue me with a fixed penalty (or offer me a speed awareness course).

I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully

………………….


Further information: It is advised that all threats received after this letter is sent, be ignored - a letter will probably be received with words to the effect, "we are complying with the regulations so pay up within seven days or a court case will be prepared" etc…..

To date, there have been no prosecutions of any alleged (minor speeding) offender who has compiled and sent a letter similar to the above.




This was another posting on the forum. This was an answer to someone posting about receiving a NIP in the post and taking it on the chin.

What proof do they have that:-

1. The vehicle in the picture is yours and not a clone?
2. The speed trap device is accurate?
3. The proper guidelines have been followed?
4. You were actually driving the car at the time?

Reply to the NIP stating that "I am unable to provide you with the information you require". Dont sign it. Enclose a covering letter stating that you wish to see a copy of the photographic evidence, and a copy of the calibration certificate for the speed detection equipment.

Also ask for a copy of the guidelines and manufacturers instructions for the use of that equipment, plus a copy of the relevant pages of the operators (Policemans) notebook, detailing the entire chain of events starting from when they parked the van to when they packed up and drove away. This will tell you whether the relevant instructions were followed.

You may not receive all of this straight away but be persistent. Regarding the photographs, make it clear to them that at present you are unable to provide them with the information they require and you need to see the photographic evidence in order that it might help you do this (notice the word "might").

Once you receive the photographs, you will (naturally) still not be able to identify the driver and will probably have doubts as to whether it is you car or not. Ask them to prove that it is indeed your car in the picture and not a similar make/model with false number plates. In the meantime, try and work out a way to place yourself and your car elsewhere at the time. (Be careful here, you dont want to lay yourself open to perjury!).

In addition to this, you could refuse to answer their questions on the grounds that it is your right to do so under the terms of the European convention of Human Rights. See <A target=new href= "http://www.righttosilence.org.uk/U color=#0000ffhttp://www.righttosilence.org.uk/U for more information and also information on a current case before the ECHR specifically regarding this. Depending upon how far you want to take things you could cite this case and ask for a stay of proceedings until you have the outcome of a similar action on your own behalf.

To summarise:-

1. Cause the buggers as much inconvenience as humanly possible.
2. Demand to see ALL the evidence against you.
3. Demand verification that all procedures have been followed and that the equipment is calibrated.
4. Ask what proof, rather than circumstantial evidence, they have that they have identified the vehicle correctly.
5. Ask what proof they have as to the identity of the driver (they will have none at all).
6. Play the human rights card.

If everybody did this, the system would collapse. The poster quotes.




We also suggest you see our <A target=main href= "http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/eulaw.htmU color=#0000ffHuman Rights/U page and also read the section in <A target=new href= "http://www.righttosilence.org.uk/U color=#0000ffhttp://www.righttosilence.org.uk/U on the ABD pages, before taking any action.
 
  BMW 320d Sport


Right on!

There is no reason why anyone should accept a NIP and pay up. Everyone needs to fight every single ticket they get. If you want more advice, email me mailto:nick@cliosport.net">nick@cliosport.net, or PM me. Ive fought every single speeding and parking ticket theyve tried to pin on me; I do it as a matter of course: after all, if Im eventually gonna end up out of pocket, I want them to work for their money. It usually works as well.
 


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